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3/24/18, 08:43 am PST
After receiving some constructive feedback, we decided to change the title from “Are John Dehlin and Ryan McKnight Trash?” to “Are John Dehlin and Ryan McKnight Heroes or Victimizers?,” as it more accurately describes this podcast episode.
Leah Marie and Miguel discuss if white men have the right to tell a woman’s story of sexual assault without her permission.
Links discussed in the podcast:
Click here to read Church News Room statement. Here is the statement as of March 23, 2018, 11:08 PST
In response to questions from multiple media outlets about allegations that a former Church mission president committed sexual assault, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement Tuesday, March 20, 2018.
These allegations are very serious and deeply disturbing. If the allegations of sexual assault are true, it would be a tragic betrayal of our standards and would result in action by the Church to formally discipline any member who was guilty of such behavior, especially someone in a position of trust.
This matter was brought to the attention of the Church in 2010, when this former Church member, who served briefly as a missionary in 1984, told leaders of the Pleasant Grove Utah West Stake that she had been sexually assaulted by the president of the Provo Missionary Training Center, Joseph Bishop, 25 years earlier. They listened carefully to the claims being made and then this was immediately reported to the Pleasant Grove Police Department, and the police interviewed her at that time. The Church does not know what she said in that interview, but the Church received no further communication from the police concerning the matter.
At the same time, the Church referred these allegations to the local ecclesiastical leaders of Joseph Bishop. Those leaders met with Mr. Bishop, who denied the allegations. Unable to verify the allegations, they did not impose any formal Church discipline on Mr. Bishop at that time.
The matter resurfaced in 2016 when the same individual contacted a stake president in Pueblo, Colorado, and then again a few weeks ago in January 2018, when the Church was contacted by a lawyer representing her. He provided a copy of a recording that she had made of a conversation between her and 85-year-old Joseph Bishop in December 2017. Since that time, the Church has engaged in an investigation of this individual’s allegations. In the course of that investigation, both she and Mr. Bishop have been interviewed by outside legal counsel. Not surprisingly, the stories, timelines and recollections of those involved are dramatically different. This woman reaffirmed her allegations, and Mr. Bishop has again denied them. We have no record of an interview between Elder Carlos E. Asay (1926-1999) and this individual.
The Church, as a religious organization, does not have the investigative tools available to law enforcement agencies. Nor can the Church substitute for the courts in adjudicating legal claims. The Church has great faith in the judicial system to determine the truth of these claims. Nevertheless, the Church takes seriously its responsibility to hold its members accountable for their conduct with respect of the laws of God and man. To that end, the Church is continuing its investigation of this individual’s claims and will act consistent with its long-standing policy of no tolerance for abuse.
Updated Statement
March 23, 2018
We share the anger and distress Church members and others feel to learn of incidents where those entrusted with sacred responsibilities violate God’s commandments and harm others. Such behavior is repulsive and sinful. The Church is looking into all aspects of the assertions on the recording of Joseph Bishop. This includes the work of outside legal counsel, who are interviewing priesthood leaders, family members, law enforcement officials and others with knowledge of these incidents.
We are aware of one other woman (who is referenced in the December recording) who informed her local ecclesiastical leaders that she was sexually abused by Joseph Bishop while he served as president of the Missionary Training Center. When she reported the alleged abuse to her local Church leaders in 2010, they provided emotional support as well as professional counseling services. Mr. Bishop’s local ecclesiastical leaders were contacted and they confronted him with her claims, which he denied, and local leaders did not feel they could pursue church discipline for Mr. Bishop.
On Wednesday, the Church, along with media outlets, received the unredacted police report from BYU Police, which included an admission of inappropriate sexual conduct. We are committed to bringing accountability for what has occurred.
Sexual abuse cannot be tolerated in the Church. We continue to urge our leaders to take reports of abuse very seriously. Leaders should call the Church’s abuse helpline, which has been established to assure that victims are cared for and that abuse reporting laws are strictly obeyed.
Click here for Fox 13 which discusses Greg Bishop.
Click here to listen to the Mormon Stories episodes discussed in this Rational Faiths podcast episode
Click here for Nurse Deborah J. Diener’s report about sexual abuse within the LDS Church
From the Salt Lake Tribune. Click here to read the entire article.
First off why the hell would it make a difference if they were non-white?
Second, it’s despicable for these men to release it without her consent, hurting her chances for a settlement, and using it to promote their agenda of no more confession of sexual sin to PH leaders–when it’s very clear that exactly what she wants.
I agree with most of what Leah and Miguel expressed in this podcast.
I don’t know if I would go so far in saying John and Ryan don’t care at all about the victim. I agree that their giddiness over how this makes the church look is bothersome.
The one item that I am wrestling without things like this being made public, are the cover-up’s/tithing used for hush money/AND THE ABUSE going to stop?
I actually have to wonder if it was someone in the COB that knows about all these abuses being covered up and is sick, but can’t risk their career and expose the whole think. So they released this as it is clearly a confessional from a high ranking repeat offender.
Internally I am still really struggling with this and I feel sorry for the victim. I was in the MTC at this time and ache for the hurt this woman has gone through for years. Decades of not being believed and probably coming to realize the only way she is even going to get money (and not complete healing) is to get this confession. And I agree with you that it is yet another tragedy heaped upon her (by men). I hope she has some family and friends to give her some support. Without that I really fear this is going to be too much for her and we have not seen the end of the tragedy for this woman.
I’m the woman in the recording with Joseph L Bishop. My identity will be revealed when I file the lawsuit.
I want to comment on some of the things said in this podcast.
First, although mormonleaks did release my recording prior to my consent, I do not believe their intention was as you say. Mr. McKnight and Mr. Dehlin support myriad causes. It is my belief that they were concerned about ALL of the victims that may become forgotten if my story was silenced by a settlement and NDA. I cannot fault them for that. Having this story leaked actually helped me. I was struggling with the settlement. Part of me wanted to take it and part of me didn’t. They made it easy for me. I didn’t have to choose. Some have stated that I am heroic and brave. I am neither of those things. I interviewed my rapist because I was pissed off. The church told me I wasn’t entitled to know what action, if any, had been taken in my reporting his raping me to several church leaders for 30 years. I was fed up. It was neither brave nor heroic.
Part of me wanted this to go away quietly and a bigger part of me wanted to scream from the top of the mountain what he did to me. Now I get to scream!!
I also do not agree that the jovial laughter in the conversation between Mr. McKight and Mr. Dehlin was inappropriate. To me it seemed they were reacting to the absurdity that Mr. Bishop could not quite place me but instead related 3 other women he must have assaulted….the biker friends girl….the breast implant girl….the girl who wanted her picture taken at the temple with someone…. I laughed too in the recording. I was none of those 3 women. I kept asking myself “who the hell is he talking about? how many are there?”
Even if the leak of the recording was prior to my consent I do not agree that these men are trash. I don’t think they would have released the recording without giving it serious thought and weighing the consequences heavily.
As the woman in the recording…..if I’m not angry perhaps the rest of the world should not be angry either.
Presuming this is the real victim from the audio leak with Joseph Bishop, thanks. I’m hoping and pushing for a positive reform to come from all this mess.
Thank you.
You have a LOT of support!
You guys are a joke. You’re angrier at the whistle-blowers than you are at your precious Church. For being “rational” faiths, your reaction to Dehlin and McKnight’s actions are very irrational. If the victim did not want the audio conversation leaked to Mormon Stories Podcast, she’s shouldn’t have shared it with anybody but her lawyer
If that woman didn’t want to be raped, why was she wearing that skirt, and out after dark?
Come on, man. Listen to yourself.
Your comparison is so absurd. I’m contributing to the rape culture by stating that if the victim did not want the audio conversation leaked she shouldn’t have shared it with anyone but her lawyer? I’m sorry, that is not victim blaming.
Listen to yourself.
“They just want to make the Church look bad.” The Church does that pretty well on its own.
“Are John Dehlin and Ryan McKnight Trash?” LOL no better way to show malevolence, ignorance, and complete lack of nuance than titling this podcast something like that. also love the random inclusion of their being white in a discussion of the ethics of their decision. keep saying things like this, stay irrelevant 😉
The Church says it takes these occurrences very seriously. They have been caught. They have covered up many other crimes by Priesthood leaders. My Stepdad is one of them. “The Interviewer” could have been me. I’ve gone down a very similar road with a few differences. This should all be exposed. My Mom’s Sister’s husband was my Stepdad’s Bishop. I told him what he did to me. He just blew me off saying, “That’s what old men do.”
This is ridicules. First, labeling them as “white men” as if race has anything to do with it. Second, this is classic “whistle blower syndrome” motivation. The shaming this article does only serves to conceal information and provide an ideal silent environment for sexual predators to thrive.
To Interviewer,
I feel for you. This is going to be ugly and hard for you, and I just want you to know how much I support you. Wish I could bring you a casserole and hang out. You take care.
Suggested topics for your next podcast:
Is Leah Marie trash? Does a white woman have the right to speak for a victim she doesn’t know? Should people who give their time, money, and allegiance to a church that covers up sexual assault check themselves before they criticize people trying to fix the problem?
Is it inappropriate to ask where the “interviewer’s” MTC companion was when this was all happening? And was her branch president—who typically would have represented the first level of counseling a troubled missionary received in the MTC—kept in the loop? Were the other missionaries in her MTC district aware of her absences from class and the ostensible reason for them? Did anyone who knew her notice a change in behavior or mood after the incident? I’ve always believed that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” and it would be ~very~ extraordinary for a sexual predator to operate freely in so confined and populated an environment as the MTC. Bishop has confessed to being a perv, but a doty 85-year-old two days removed from major surgery might confess to ~anything~. A “Bill Cosby”- or “Harvey Weinstein”-style succession of accusers, not to mention independent verification of Bishop’s sexual improprieties in various church callings, would be pretty convincing proof.
I first read about this Dehlin/McKnight releasing the tape … late September … IMO: Absolutely, unequivocally, McKnight and Dehlin, Victimiziers!
IMO, total disregard for McKenna Denson’s law case considerations, her emotional health & well-being, empowerment. Ryan and John – monolithically reprehensible.
& IMO, Dr. Dehlin “Clinical Psychologist, Coach” a consummate charlatan, a sexual predator … (based on my face to face in real life experiences of Dehlin; others allegations researched providing empirical evidence, hard proof is not hearsay) & Ryan McKnight, IMO is purveyor of rape culture as Ryan wrote to me, he heard Dehlin was just “flirting” with Rosebud.
In May 2017 Kate Kelly posted about the mass exodus of Mormon Stories/OSF “Team” except for Natasha … which I researched; discovered Rosebud … her name IRL is easily determined, just will never be published by me, honoring an “alleged” victim’s request, her request to use “Rosebud” noted in her posts re John Dehlin sexual harassment Mormon Stories.)
Also important to note: In May 2017 Ryan McKnight shed light re the 2012 sexual harassment allegations against Dehlin by Rosebud), later commenting to me: Dehlin … just “flirting”.
PA West
Hopefully, prayerfully one at a minimum, one child/minor is spared the sexual predator repertoire of John Dehlin as I allege I in real life, face to face (and others), including minors were subjected to.
#iwillnotbeshushed
I created this #iwillnotbeshushed for me as a direct result of my #mormonmetoo re my allegations against Dehlin, Natasha Helfer Parker (IMO a consummate enabler w cohorts Ryan Millencamp, Dan Wotherspoon, Team Mormon Stories/OSF). At the other end of the #mormonmetoo spectrum, I will use #iwillnotbeshushed re the abuse, my #mormometoo which precipitated my resigning from TSCC in 12/2014. A shout out to Swen Swenson, Attorney at Kriton McConkie)
IMO, Dehlin’s managing his virtual compound MSPC/OSF, etc., “excommunicates” those who “disrespect” him, far more stringent & without warning than The Mormon Church wields its excommunications and with far more secrecy and community isolation from information, than Warren Jeffs manages/managed the FLDS.
There needs to be a billboard:
Know your Religion Know your Mormon Stories Podcaster “allegations”
Google: “John Dehlin, Predator”
As for Dehlin supposedly being absolutely necessary or important; essential to the #mormonmetoo movement, incredulously, IMO and IRL/F2F experience, an “alleged” (serial, IMO too) sexual predator is puppetering #mormonmetoo “alleged” victims.
#thewolfisinthehenshouse
#IstandwithMcKennaDensonbutnotJohnDehlin
#ibelieveRosebud
#ibelievetheJoannaJSmithand12