On the evening of December 12th, 2013, my Bishop and his First Counselor came to my house and told me that they had set a date the following week for an official disciplinary council, the first step toward excommunication, for my advocating for the equality for women in the LDS church and supporting Ordain Women. I could attend the court if I wished, but if I chose not to they would hold it on my behalf in my absence. I had spoken privately with my bishop about these matters and concerns prior, but it was the fact that I wrote two blog posts about it on my personal blog (here and here) and shared it where people could see it that caused him to action. I don’t even have a profile with OW, but he said just advocating for them and publicly sharing feminist views were enough to warrant disciplinary attention. He also said that the Area Authority specifically named Ordain Women as an apostate group and that my advocating for them and agreement with their goals in and of itself was grounds for an official court. He confirmed to me time and time again that evening that his hands were tied, this was coming from above him, and that it had been previously concluded by the entire Bishopric that this was the appropriate action for me.
They remained at my house for two hours, during which time I told them I had done nothing wrong and had no intent of repenting for following my conscience because that simply is not a sin. It was a very trying and disheartening conversation during which I chose to stand my ground very firmly. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I was quite possibly the first woman in the world to have been given an invitation for an official disciplinary action for supporting OW; no others had been reported at that time or reached out to OW for support. Having been a life long member of the church, a returned missionary, a BYU graduate, having been married in the temple, and being in my ward’s Relief Society Presidency until just the month before our meeting–I found having my Bishop in my living room threatening my membership (and salvation) for seeking equality very confusing. There were very many hurtful, unChristlike things said to me that night; the worst of which being: “The only way you can stay in good standing in this church is if you shut your mouth, put your head down, stop being vocal about your questions and concerns, read only approved materials and scriptures, and fall in line”. I told my Bishop I had no such intentions, and that if he needed to give me a Court of Love then go right ahead; I would attend it but had no intent of repenting for speaking out for feminism and asking doctrinal questions because these actions are not a sin.
My husband was equally dumbfounded with the discourse of that night; it was incredibly bewildering and contradictory to what we thought the church was. The first person I reached out to for help was my good friend Thomas Kimball (a publicist for Mormon press in Utah) who informed me that it doesn’t matter that I’m just a girl in the Seattle area that very few people know; what my Bishop did that night was completely unprecedented and could easily be headline news in the Salt Lake Tribune and Huffington Post the next morning if I chose to speak about it. The church officially disciplining ANY feminist is a big deal. He told me to just give him the “go” and the Associated Press would be there in 20 minutes (it was midnight here). I held off because I was overwhelmed and didn’t know what the ramifications would be. I was already so hurt and just confused… adding press into the mix seemed kind of ridiculous.
The next morning, John Dehlin reached out to me. Hearing his voice on the phone saying my name, a voice I knew so well from his podcast Mormon Stories, was a really remarkable experience. He was incredibly helpful and sincere; offering me advice in any way he could to help me understand what was happening, what my options were to do next, and what this all actually meant. He let me know he was a friend I could count on and that I wasn’t alone. Just having his support and friendship was such a balm to me at the time. I thanked him for his assistance and taking time out of his busy schedule to help me and said I would let him know of any new developments.
Soon after this, Kate Kelly of Ordain Women called me. I was so incredibly impressed with her during our conversation. She was heartbroken to hear that this had happened and she reassured me that no one, on any level, at any time had made an official stance on OW as being apostate as far as she knew and that she herself worked closely with her Stake President and Bishop and that she held a current recommend. None of the other leaders of OW were in “hot water” either. She bore her testimony of the gospel to me and let me know that this was something she deeply believed in. She knows that Christ is speaking to her heart and that that firm conviction alone compels her to move this important work forward and bring these issues to light. She knows that further equality for women was just what the church needed to grow stronger and thrive. I was just so touched by her faith, bravery, and compassion.
A few hours later, I received an email from my Bishop saying he was retracting the invitation to a Court of Love; his sole explanation being that he “misspoke”. He said he inquired further and saw that an official for the church said that “Ordain Women is not an apostate group at this time”, so I was off the hook. He then told me that I should be more cautious and he wouldn’t be surprised at all if this stance changed in the near future and that I was treading on very thin ice. I responded asking who the “official for the church” he was citing was, because there was not any public official statement that matched what he was quoting. He refused to tell me, saying it was none of my business. I asked him if the Area Authority had changed his mind? Because the night before my bishop was VERY insistent that this was very official and coming from the Area Authority. He refused to answer me and said it was none of my business as to who said what; all I needed to know is that it is no longer my concern. When I pointed out that he wasn’t answering my questions, he became very curt and informed me he would not answer or explain any further. I was left to infer that I wasn’t important enough to even get a worth-while apology. One in which anyone could be held accountable for accusations made against me and false statements, or for the hurt and pain it caused my husband and myself. Don’t even get me started on the pain I caused my parents when I told them there was a very good chance I could be excommunicated; it was like I was being cut out of their eternities. The actions of my Bishop proved that the institution had to be protected at all costs and I was just not worthy of even an explanation.
I am sharing this story publicly because yesterday it was announced that both John Dehlin and Kate Kelly are officially being summoned to appear in disciplinary courts for apostasy and could be excommunicated. It is so strange this is happening exactly six months after I had the same invitation extended to me, a person of very little consequence in the big scheme of things.
I have become good friends with John Dehlin since and have helped with a number of his projects and we communicate with each other as friends weekly. I admire him as a person and value his friendship. I know him to be very caring, brave, authentic, and completely consumed with the need to help, love, and embrace Mormons; no matter where they are in their faith journey. He does not wish to create a personal following, to be seen as a leader of any kind, or even to be considered a role model. He simply wants to help people and create a loving space for them. He has dedicated his life for over a decade to creating a space where everyone can share freely without fear. His podcasts have kept thousands of people in the church, have healed mixed-faiths marriages, and have created a much needed forum for dialogue and discussion. When he has criticized aspects of leadership or stances made by the church, it has never been out of malice. He only hopes for a constructive dialogue to be opened. His letter on Mormon Stories today about the depth of pain this is causing his family made my heart ache for them. I hope that they will still be treated fairly by their Mormon community after all of this passes and know that God honors their commitment and familial bonds with or without the church’s stamp of recognition.
Photo by Katrina Barker Anderson
Kate’s heart-breaking response to this action taken against her is just so accurate to what I know of her. To have her baptism, marital and family sealings, and endowments canceled on her behalf would be like witnessing her own death! Furthermore, they are doing this in the ward from which she recently moved so she can’t even be there to personally defend herself at her court.
I have chatted online with Kate Kelly a few times in the last months. Her conviction and spirituality has amazed me. She such a devout, knowledgeable believer in the restoration. She sustains her leaders and is simply seeking a venue for her questions to be pondered and presented to the Lord anew. She brought her concerns up at the local level and was told they had no power to do anything with concerns such as those. She realized she needed to find a way to bring it to the leadership herself so she organized a forum to find like-minded sisters and started OW. They have been denied ANY admittance for conversation or dialogue of any kind with the leadership of the church. So she decided to show up at the door of the tabernacle itself.
The church has mislabeled OW’s actions as protests. But WHY is asking to be included being labeled as protest? We are told over and over again that women have equal access to the Priesthood as men do, though we cannot hold it ourselves. Knowing this, OW has asked for admission to the Priesthood session for the last two conferences. Men preside over and are also allowed to attend the women’s meetings of the church; so why can’t women attend the Priesthood session? This was her question. She also asked that the brethren ask of the Lord concerning ordination for women. At NO point in time have the brethren come out and said that they have prayed anew and the Lord has spoken directly concerning this matter and has irrevocably confirmed to the Prophet that women will not hold the Priesthood and why. Instead we have Elder Oaks inaccurately citing a nonexistant “divine decree” that hasn’t ever been divinely decreed in any part of our scriptural canon. He quoted Joseph Fielding Smith and J. Reuben Clark as his official references; both men who erroneously supported and taught of the divine nature and providence behind the ban on black people holding the Priesthood for 150 years (actions and teachings which the church now entirely disavows). No where at any time was Christ’s word or invocation mentioned by Elder Oaks or any other current leader of the church concerning the ordination of women. Until that happens, Ordain Women has every right to ask for consideration.
No matter what their intents and motives are, John Dehlin and Kate Kelly are the LAST people that should be considered for excommunication. They are people who are standing up for those who don’t have voices of their own. When bishops have no answers and aren’t able to help, Kate and John offer support and a nonjudgmental ear either personally or through communities they’ve created. They are dedicated to loving Mormons and Mormonism, to improving it, and to giving a safe place to those who feel they don’t have one. They are creating communities of dialogue and open discussion for topics that the church provides literally NO place to speak openly. They are making Mormonism BETTER and are willing to go to great lengths to ensure that everyone is treated with love and given a voice. When I was treated with cold indifference by my church leaders and ward, they were both there to tell me that I mattered and that they would help me however they could. They are doing, in short, what Christ would do.
When I saw their pending excommunications announced in the NY Times yesterday, my heart sunk. These people are heroes to me and many others. They are exactly what Mormonism needs to move forward and I just am so deeply hurt that the church would choose to humiliate and discipline them in this manner. The church doesn’t have to agree with them, that’s fine! But to threaten severing their baptismal and temple ordinances on their behalf and expel them from the church?! Why don’t we leave it to the Lord and His judgement at the final bar. While we are on earth, excommunication should never be even talked about for people like John Dehlin or Kate Kelly. They should be loved and the church should be proud to have them in their membership.
Many will insist that this is the will of Christ because it is being done by those who hold the Priesthood keys, but I see nothing Christ-like here. Christ went out of his way to show love, be inclusive, and love unconditionally. What the church is doing is a power play for control; plain and simple. It isn’t just Kate Kelly and John Dehlin who are being reprimanded and silenced, it is everyone who doesn’t fit the correlated Mormon mold. Everyone who has felt undermined and misunderstood but been too afraid to speak up. All of us who have seen a gaping dichotomy between the restored church and the current Church and asked how this happened? All of use who have questions that are irreconcilable within the current limitations of the Church Education System and who have been scorned for asking for an explanation. This is the big tent of Mormonism and Kate Kelly and John Dehlin are holding the hammers and stakes to extend the tent further. I realized today that the church is much more invested in protecting its authoritarian control than to make room for those who are seeking to expand the walls of Mormonism. Today is the day I realized that the institution of Mormonism is unrecognizable to me.
Lori Burkman
Lori wrote for Rational Faiths as a permablogger for the calendar year of 2014. She retired from writing about Mormonism in early 2015 to pursue new interests. She grew up in the Pacific Northwest. She received a BA in English from Brigham Young University and also served a mission for the LDS church. She was a web designer during college, then went on to be a technical writer and editor for 3 years until she went on hiatus to take care of her kids full-time. She loves photography, music, recreational sports, reading, and studying.
All posts by Lori Burkman
Preach it, Sister!
The time has come for all of us like-thinking Mormons to band together against this onslaught.
For if we do not hang together, we will most assuredly all hang separately.
Corbin, I have always loved your posts and your voice. Thanks for the solidarity.
Your post brought tears to my eyes and a feeling of being sucker punched in my gut. I have been a member for my life of 62 years, and my heart has been broken and my spirit beaten down by the church I have loved. This treatment of others who have been faithful, loving members of the church is heartbreaking. I and I think other members weep tears of heartache and frustration for all facing the excommunication process simply because of opinions that are some how threatening. Be comforted in the prayers of strangers who agree with you.
Did you know we’re both in the NW? I’m pretty sure we need to go on a hike or do a barbeque together some time.
Thank you Lori!!
I’m so confused today. I asked some friends of mine if they knew who john and Kate were. None of the 5 of them did. So none of the statements made by john or Kate have effected thinking of people who don’t allready know them. Why has the church.(TM) choose to take a stance now. John has been out there for many years. And Kate also for some time. Is it just to scare those of us who follow their blogs? I think so. Bit I think this is going back fire in the church’s(TM) face. If they would have waited to ex Denver and rock until this month, we could Call them
the “June 4”. Well all this is disheartening.
Thanks so much for your comment! It is very hard to comprehend that the majority of the membership have no idea what the world of the fringe is like or that it even exists. I myself was unaware of it just a year ago. John is so amazing and I wish all mormons could be aware of his work. The movement for exxing voices like Snuffer, Waterman, Dehlin, and Kelly is just so perplexing to me; I can’t even wrap my head around it.
*applause* This is fantastic! Thank you for sharing your experiences.mormonism needs more, not fewer, people like you, John and Kate. If they want to keep their “best and brightest,” the leadership needs to loosen the reins a bit.
Thank you so much Zara!
I made the decision to resign from the church for numerous reasons at the end of last year. The institution in my opinion is showing there true colors at this point. I thought for a while that I would advocate for change within the church….to make it a place where I would be accepted, loved, and welcomed. It didn’t take long for me to see how hard that uphill battle was going to be….and it wasn’t a journey that made sense for me. As I see the decisions being made by corporate LDSinc it is increasingly obvious that there truly is no revelation coming from on high….if this is revelation then it is definitely coming from a hate filled god, similar to the angry, wrath filled god of the Old Testament. I gUess it was just a matter of time before the Old Testament god once again reared his ugly face.
Staying active in any way after the blinders come off is incredibly hard. It can be done in some wards, but I personally have not been so lucky. Thanks for your comment.
“mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts” D&C 29:7.
It’s amazing how many passages of scripture like this I am beginning to see apply equally to Church leaders . . .
Amen and amen.
I know this is an old Post, but I just stumbled on it. What this whole thing boils down to is your belief in divine revelation through priesthood authority. The doctrine that men only are conferred the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood transcends your cultural beliefs. If it is the way God seems it, then who are we to protest it? To preach against his revealed doctrines (given through his chosen representatives) is actual apostasy. I hope you can see this someday. Best wishes.
Hope you don’t mind me sharing. I have been reading and following many of the articles and comments by you, Mr. Volluz, and Mr. Barker for a little more than half a year now. I was a member of the church that could no longer reconcile what I truly felt, with what was going on and what was being taught. I did not know how to find the strength or faith to remain a part, and advocate for change from within. Largely because of the insight, compassion, and wit the three of you bloggers have shown I started to develop hope. Started to consider that maybe the choice I had made is wrong, and I could be a part of it and advocate for change from within.
I recently started attending church services again. Something I haven’t done in about 8 years. I have often wanted to contact any of you 3, just to ask questions, but never knew how to, and never raised the courage to make the attempt, because I was afraid you guys would do something crazy like say even more stuff that made complete sense, and then I’d have to act on it and give faith another shot. Much like the work of Ms. Kelly, and Mr. Dehlin, you guys here at rationalfaiths have helped revive something inside me I believed was long dead and buried. Faith, and hope. It saddens me greatly to see what is happening right now, but also makes me firmly believe that a drastic time for change is quickly approaching. Perhaps now is the time to stand together. Perhaps the people are the instrument the Lord is trying to use to bring forth change. I don’t know where things will go from here, but wherever they do I just want to thank you for your articles, and helping restore some hope for me personally. And thank Mr. Volluz, and Mr. Barker as well for the same.
Thank you so much for your kind words, Dusty.
Please feel free to reach out to me at any time. I am not exactly in the best of moods right now, but Mike Barker knows that as well as anyone!
Perhaps you are right. Perhaps the people are the instrument the Lord is trying to use to bring forth change.
Perhaps the Lord is hastening his work after all . . .
Dusty, thank you deeply for sharing that comment. The majority of mormons I know (especially my friends and ward) think I write to tear the church apart; though that is NOT my intent or motive in any way. I question sometimes if I am doing it right. I can’t tell you how touched I am that you have followed my posts and that they have helped you know that there are kindred spirits out there and that you have a place. Also, Corbin, Michael, and Paul were the first people I truly identified with when I started following Rational Faiths last year–so be listed among them is a huge compliment. Feel free to friend me on facebook if you feel so inclined! Thanks again for the comment.
I am beginning to feel that I am living in an ‘east bloc’ country in the 60s and 70s. But that country is my church.
It is a strange era to witness for sure. I hope that the power of the internet will help influence the effect of these threats more than when the september 6 happened.
Powerful, powerful post, Lori. Absolutely heartbreaking but inspiring at the same time.
Thank you so much. I had finally had long enough to process this experience with my bishop that last week I mentioned to Paul Barker that I felt the time had come to write about it. Then this all happened with Kate and John yesterday and i KNEW the time had come. It’s hard putting stuff like this out there, but these stories are important even if they’re hard to share.
I stay because I have hope for change. But it gets harder and harder to believe that will happen. Thank you for your courage and commitment- you clearly stated many of my thoughts and feelings about the giant step backwards with these threats against people trying to make a positive difference.
The leadership is at least taking notice and small changes and advances are being made. Just think of how incredibly nuanced their stances on LGBT acceptance is now. You used to be excommunicated for simply being attracted or admitting you’re gay, even if you didn’t act on it. And for women, they now pray in conference, have a seat on the stand, have their pictures along side the men (their 9 pictures next to the 95 leadership men). It’s small things but they mean a lot. I think there’s more to come if we keep pushing for it. Thanks for reading my essay and commenting, I’m glad it resonated with you.
I wept reading this.
I was raised in the church, my mother’s side includes pioneers. I’ve never felt truly comfortable, but initially I chalked it up to personal inadequacies. After my temple marriage proved disastrous, I began distancing myself. I went from “trying to be faithful” to “inactive but apathetic” to “beginning to find the church dangerous” to my current situation, which has evolved significantly over the last day because of this situation.
Currently, I attend the Unitarian Universalist church and I have finally found a spiritual home there.
I’m heartsick at this situation, because it can only be described as psychological abuse on the part of your local church leadership. It was cruel to threaten your eternity with your family, create that emotional upheaval, and then back track without an explanation or apology. And what makes it worse is that your Bishop probably means well. It would be one thing to suffer this heartache from someone who is intentionally inflicting it, but to have it come from a place of “love”…
Thank you for sharing this. I needed this.
Thanks so much for your support Dawn. I, too, never felt “in” like everyone else growing up; it didn’t stick to me or feel spiritually fulfilling the same way it seemed to for others but I always believed that it was because I was defective or just not worthy enough so I kept trying harder. It wasn’t until I was 28 or so that I started to even consider that perhaps there was something more to the lack of cohesion.
This has been a crazy year for me. I have found a new spiritual tribe in the fringe of mormonism; this whole time I had no idea there were so many people who felt and thought the same way I do. It has been such a help. My actions and beliefs (and willingness to share publicly) have hurt members of my family and I absolutely hate that, but I can’t change that THIS is my story and it needs to be shared. Plus John is truly a good friend of mine and I won’t sit idly by as he gets attacked.
Thanks again for your comment, support, and willingness to be vulnerable.
Thank you for sharing your experience and insight, Lori! My heart is broken at the implications of the church’s actions. I had no idea you had such a close brush with your own excommunication! I admire your courage!
Oh, Lori, I’m so sorry. My heart breaks with yours.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Amberly and Holly, thanks for your empathy and sympathy. It means a lot. I’m glad the essay resonated with you, though it is sad.
Are you still thinking of bringing the press into it? You should 😉 Then your bishop can own up to what he said…and people can see behind the scenes the fear, anger, and threats that a lot of members have.
lol, they have Kate Kelly now. I don’t think I would be of any interest. Deciding to finally be public with it here on RF is probably this story’s destiny. Thanks for the vote of confidence though.
I am sad to hear about your experience with your bishop and local leaders. I am very surprised to hear how they acted and the distress they caused. It is not right how you were treated and absolutely against how they are supposed to behave. The bishop is called to be the father of the ward, a representative of Christ, and as a priesthood holder should behave accordingly, out of love. His priesthood authority will only be valid if he behaves according to those principles. Otherwise, he is acting as a man alone, without the sanction of Jesus Christ. I think there is always the potential for this to happen, this is a lay membership, no one is professionally trained etc. and mistakes will occur. I hope one day an apology is made to you and your family for undue distress you’ve been caused.
I think there is often a misunderstanding by members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints between doctrine, policy, church culture etc. this misunderstanding can cause a lot of confusion for people. Policies can change depending on the growth of the church, needs of the members, changing times etc, culture depends on where people live and changing society. But doctrine will not change, it is revealed by God through His prophets throughout time, this is how it has been done since Adam. God is not changeable, we can always depend on that. We can know the truth of the doctrine or gospel of Jesus Christ for ourselves through the witness of the Holy Ghost. That is everyone’s privilege and opportunity. We don’t have to accept anything in blind faith because we have our own opportunity to find out for ourselves. If we feel it is true, then we make a choice, to accept the principles of the gospel and the word of the Lord through his prophets – ‘whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants it is the same’ D&C 1:38. I believe the doctrine of the priesthood is part of that and unchangeable. But we need to understand it better, our own role as women within that, and the future. I am satisfied with my role as a woman in the church, that’s my own business and journey. I don’t feel that equality for women means being able to be ordained to the same priesthood offices as men. I think it is unfair to women actually and almost demeans the role that we play. In the attempt to be the same as men, we risk losing our own identity, our own unique abilities and gifts. Why do we think that equality means being the same as having their privileges? We have our own rights and privileges. Equality to me means working alongside the men, greater understanding of each others divine role, sharing responsibility and loving and supporting each other in open dialogue.
There should definitely be open dialogue about issues, members of the church should absolutely ask questions and discuss things. But this should be done in the right time and place and never demean the other or contend because then the Holy Ghost could not be present. Also, I think there is a line which can be crossed when people seek to persuade others to follow them and it goes against doctrine of the gospel. I say doctrine now – not policy or culture, and there really is a clear difference. I am in no place to judge Kate Kelly for her actions, I don’t know her personally or full details about what she has been accused. But I hope at all times she has been treated with respect and kindness, this is how all leaders of the church, men or women should behave, and if they are don’t behave in this way, then they don’t deserve that responsibility and we need to remember that they don’t represent the Lord when they behave in that way. I hope all of these issues and questions can be resolved in an amicable way.
Jenni, can you please provide information that backs up your statement that doctrine does not change? Doctrine absolutely does change. There are so many doctrines that have been swept under the rug by the present church because they don’t work. Yesterday’s doctrines are today’s folk doctrine….
You may find statements saying that doctrine doesn’t change but that flies in the very face of the evidence that shows completely the opposite.
Jenni, well said.
I appreciate your comment and see where you are coming from. If ordination truly isn’t meant for women on earth, then OW and thousands if not millions of other women simply seek further equality and an equal voice of equal weight. To be involved in the administration. To be witnesses in baptisms, to take part in disciplinary courts, to be counselors in bishoprics, to have equal funding and programs for the youth.
And I know how this might sound, but doctrine as taught as “unchangeable” in the church has changed. A LOT. They simply dont highlight those changes at church because they are not faith promoting. It does not take long looking at our history to see the changes and shifts in doctrine.
For instance:
Here is a proclamation read over the pulpits July 17, 1947 – First Presidency letter states: “From the days of the Prophet Joseph even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel. Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. God’s rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous. Modern Israel has been similarly directed. We are not unmindful of the fact that there is growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.”
In 1954, Mormon elder Mark E. Peterson discussed blacks and the priesthood in an address to a Convention of Teachers of Religion at the College Level at Brigham Young University. He said:
“The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. ‘No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood’ (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a ‘Nation of Priesthood holders’….”
That is, all male descendents of a racially-mixed marriage in which one spouse had even a single distant black ancestor would be forever prohibited from becoming a Mormon priest. In addition to racism within the LDS church’s past, sexism was — and continues to be — present. Even today, no woman can be ordained. However, a black or partially black person could be baptized in the Mormon faith and attain heaven after death. Peterson concluded:
“If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.”
or here: Mormon Apostle and apologist, Bruce R. McConkie, (1915-1985) touched on the black issue in his book “Mormon Doctrine:” “…this is the standard LDS guide to church doctrine, found in nearly every active Mormon household.” He wrote in the first edition of his book — 1958 — about the repercussions on earth of a war in heaven:
“In the pre-existent eternity various degrees of valiance and devotion to the truth were exhibited by different groups of our Father’s spirit offspring… some were more valiant than others… Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin… Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty… The present status of the negro rests purely and simply on the foundation of pre-existence… The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.”
These and MANY other things have been taught as unchanging doctrine from the time of Adam, but they have changed significantly as we grow closer to the Lord and open our hearts and ask for further revelation. That is what OW and feminists seek.
The thing that really bothers me about this whole thing is the authority component, and your situation highlights my concerns exactly. Any bishop can decide any woman has strayed off the reservation and hold a court, and you have no recourse. You’re not even entitled to the reason why (i.e. which authority said to pull the trigger and then changed his story). In a sense it’s not so much the excommunication that bothers me as much as you not being able to confront who your accuser really is, because once some authority says “show her out the door”, the bishop will be obedient and do so and you have no idea who that is or any avenue to confront them. That’s just wrong.
Amen to that! My bishop actually said “you should feel fortunate that because you are a woman, we can keep this between just us. If you were a man, we would have to have a court of 15 people at the stake level”
I was like, “wow, if you think that is a consolation then you REALLY don’t get feminism”.
Thanks for taking the time to read my story and comment.
Lori: I have heard that several times too lately in reaction to the Kate & John comparison. It of course only means women are less important, have less responsibility, and are essentially treated like children, not full agents like a Melchezidek PH holder would be. Which is better? Being killed by a firing squad of 15 or being shot with a small revolver?
Coordinated moves by the SLC leadership to excommunicate and stop small vocal groups is frightening. I also believe that the councils hide behind a false veil of love. For some reason I feel they have traded their wing tips for hob nailed boots.
The Church is showing fear of Kate Kelly. The Church is giving her too much credit. The Church needs to bleed out its narcissism and start a campaign of true love and service.
I agree completely Dale, thanks.
Wow, Lori. Thanks for this glimpse. I’ve known about abuses of authority by otherwise good people since my Dad privately shared various experiences with me when I was a teenager. That helped me not judge the church by those abuses for many years. Now I judge the church by those abuses when they are the continued result of institutional structure. We with the power and privilege must repent and atone for this, from the bottom to the top.
Thanks so much Jonathan. This was a hard story to put out there for me, but I knew it was time.
Lori, I feel for you. I’m one of the anonymous lurkers that wanders through and reads an article once in a while. I’m active LDS and an unofficial apologist for church policies. I’m a quiet heretic, with a testimony.
The way I see it, you are sincere, but misguided. Progressive practices are anathema to LDS policies. Here’s the way I see it, and perhaps the way the church sees it although I do not and connot speak for the church.
The ongoing war between light and darkness is currently focused on gender roles and same sex issues. God loves every one of His children without exception, but cannot support or allow the least degree of insurrection against His plan. His plan is for eternities, not for here & now only. It is requisite, even essential that His children are sealed in families headed by a man and a woman.
The role of the woman is an equal partner to the man, but the man is the head of the family. I like to think of it as the man being the head but the woman being the heart – without either the being is deceased.
The man acting unilateraly would be evil, if both the heart and head do not agree, action is futile.
Our world has taught us to agitate for change and provided examples whih are held up as avatars. This is not the way I see God’s plan. It is essential as disciples of Christ that we are submissive and as little children, this is the only way the Holy Ghost can be a constant companion.
Praying personally for what you are driven to do is part of God’s plan. Writing about it critically is not. This flies in the face of modern education methods and thought, but this is the way the kingdom operates.
I’ve seen a lot of comments on here about jack boots and corporations and lack of love. I tell you that the LDS church is love, and whether certain mortal leaders may be misguided or not, Christ does stand at it’s head and direct His work.
You sound hurt and confused, His love is there for you, but if you agitate, if you rally with the cause that is against His, you will find yourself very soon on the outside. Don’t choose that path, the remarkable point of the human experience of mortality is agency. You can choose, the path HE encourages all of us to is humility. Regard His sacrifice, act from love of Him instead of love of what excites.
The litmus test for all soul searching is true spiritual peace and light, it can’t be faked.
I love you as a sister, and I’m saying a prayer for you. I hope my words don’t offend or open wounds. Peace.
You make a lot of absolute statements in this that should be prefaced by “I believe that . . .” or “In my opinion . . .” unless you’re an apostle. Even in that case we’re told that doctrine is established jointly by the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12, and even apostles making flat statements in General Conference may just be expressing their own opinions.
So, feel free to justify many of the statements above and not just issue them as though they were accepted fact.
‘The way I see it.’ . . . ‘perhaps the way the church sees it’ . . .
Perhaps you have a vested interest in not understanding what I’m writing?
I suppose standard LDS apologist tactics are to attack the person when that becomes easier than attacking their ideas.
I’m not trying to argue with you. I offered a series of my own heartfelt opinions. You pointed out that I shouldn’t speak authoritatively, but preface that they are opinions. I pointed out that they were opinions and said perhaps you wanted to not understand that. You claimed I attacked you. I think you are a bit confused, but, that’s O.K.
Jonathan, you stated that praying personally for what you are driven to do is part of gods plan. However, writing about it is not. Please substantiate this comment because there is no doctrine that says you cannot write critically or question. It is amazing to me that so many Mormons are willing to dismiss any information (even when proven true) that doesn’t align with their Mormon beliefs. Mormonism has always been so big on obtaining knowledge, studying, etc….but obtaining knowledge and studying is only good if it doesn’t contradict the teachings of the church. The only reason why the leaders don’t want members studying true history is because they realize that the members will soon find out how things have been whitewashed, covered up, changed, twisted, etc to meet a faith promoting end. The only thing john dehlin is guilty of is helping people…. His efforts have actually helped tons and tons of members stay in the church. He has also provided real comfort and friendship to those that leave.,,.unlike the leaders of the church who choose to label, judge, and classify those who leave as apostates, sons of perdition, misguided, etc. The only misguidedness comes from the leaders of the church who are unwilling to teach the truth. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man? The church cannot answer that honestly for themselves.
My opinions are not official policies, nor do I see them becoming so anytime in the future.
Pragmatically I’m looking at history.
You sure stated your opinions as though they were church policy. When you say “this is the way the kingdom operates” you sure don’t sound like you are just offering an opinion. You stated it as a matter of fact.
Also, I’m a little confused how progressive practices are anathema to church policy. That actually flies in the very face of everything that Jesus was….Jesus was very progressive…and is supposedly at the head of the church. So at what point did Jesus start becoming conservative? Jesus started getting conservative when the leaders of the church started realizing that all their off the beaten path, whacky teachings didn’t jive with any known truth and were in fact wrong. The more they discover is incorrect the more they shelter themselves with super conservative teachings.
Remember that arguing with apologists is like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.
Tell you what, let me clarify it for both yourself and Bobd, I’ll make it crystal clear:
I believe what I wrote, put “Jon believes” in front of each sentence. Not one word of what I wrote is official LDS doctrine.
My belief is based off personal experience, study and pragmatism based on what I’ve seen and experienced.
Your mileage may vary.
That’s fine….however your opinions and feelings do not jive with reality. Please explain how progressive practices are anathema to the church policies. Please give Information so that we all can see what knowledge and study you have done that shows that members of the church can’t write critically about the teachings and doctrines. If you have information that we all should have it’s best to cite so e sources so we can all be edified together
Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’ springs to mind. Maybe you could add some examples of behavior that has not gained favorable results when confronting the LDS Church?
Rules for radicals…..really….ok, I guess we need to start from square one. Being progressive and radical are not one in the same. Can a progressive person or idea be radical….yes. However just because one so progressive does not make them radical. You’ll notice that under the synonyms for progressive there are many other words that can be used for progressive. Joseph smith was progressive. Brigham young was progressive. Jesus was progressive. They all sought change of some form….they challenged the status quo. When there is no progression in an organization then it stagnates. It loses validity. It becomes irrelevant.
Progressive
1.
happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
“a progressive decline in popularity”
synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More
(of a disease or ailment) increasing in severity or extent.
“progressive liver failure”
(of taxation or a tax) increasing as a proportion of the sum taxed as that sum increases.
“steeply progressive income taxes”
(of a card game or dance) involving a series of sections for which participants successively change place or relative position.
archaic
engaging in or constituting forward motion.
2.
(of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
“a relatively progressive governor”
favoring or promoting change or innovation.
“a progressive art school”
synonyms: modern, liberal, advanced, forward-thinking, enlightened, enterprising, innovative, pioneering, dynamic, bold, avant-garde, reforming, reformist, radical; More
antonyms: conservative, reactionary
relating to or denoting a style of rock music popular especially in the 1980s and characterized by classical influences, the use of keyboard instruments, and lengthy compositions.
3.
GRAMMAR
denoting an aspect or tense of a verb that expresses an action in progress, e.g., am writing, was writing.
noun
noun: progressive; plural noun: progressives; noun: progressive proof; plural noun: progressive proofs
1.
a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
synonyms: innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal, libertarian More
2.
GRAMMAR
a progressive tense or aspect.
“the present progressive”
“The role of the woman is an equal partner to the man, but the man is the head of the family”
This is paradoxical. Men and women are equal partners, THEY lead the family. That is the only true equality.
My views and opinions have come from deep scripture study, prayer, and revelation. It is not your place to tell me I am misguided or that you know God’s ultimate will more than anyone else. The church and doctrine have changed in SIGNIFICANT ways since the restoration. Following our hearts and asking for consideration is hardly apostasy. Nothing I seek lies without the realm of Christ’s teachings in any way at all.
Please make room for me and my friends. Don’t tell us we’re wrong. Value our opinions and respect that they are valid concerns, even if they don’t match your own. Love and support others rather than telling them they are “on the outside”. If I am, it is people like you and my bishop putting me there. Not Christ. Even if I am ultimately wrong, that doesnt mean that christ loves me any less or is disappointed in me. I’m pretty sure he’d be pleased with my conviction and open heart.
After reading some of the responses here, and over much of social media I have several thoughts. I see so many defending the church actions here with a complete lack of compassion, and such a firm and unflinching tone.
Is our faith guiding us, or is it blinding us? Are we able to humble ourselves and come down from a place of believing we know what is right and truth, and accept a very difficult thing any person has trouble admitting… “I might be wrong. Some of what I believe might be wrong. Some of what I ‘know’ might be wrong.”
Are we shackled by pride in believing we can’t be wrong, and unshackled by doubts and questions? Having the freedom to explore those questions, and challenge something is what shows us the things that are really true. Truth stands firm against criticism. Becomes stronger. Brings people closer to places of understanding as it weathers the questions and doubts. Truth accepts dissent. It doesn’t shy from it, or seek to silence it.
If our faith is blinding us, then how do we open our eyes, our hearts, our minds, our souls? How do we open our senses so we can truly be paying attention. So we, from leaders of the church, to every person (member or not) can truly hear what the Lord is saying? My fear is we have become too used to taking comfort in our pride in believing we can’t be wrong, or lead down a wrong path by leaders and lost touch with true compassion and respect of agency. After all, the plan of forced obedience we are taught is the plan that God rejected…
How did I miss this comment earlier?! This is so beautiful and insightful; thanks so much for sharing.
I am not LDS but my heart is breaking for you. If you are following Christ and haven given your life to serving him there is no amount of rejection here on Earth which can revoke God’s love, your salvation, your calling, or your partnership with your husband from you.
Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There are also verses concerning God’s blessing on marriages.
Praying His blessings and peace for you as you all go through this together.
Thanks for your concern and support.
Interesting, thought-provoking read. I feel pain for everyone that struggles with difficult questions or inter-personal relationships with family, friends, or spouses, because of their religion.
I am an active, temple-married individual. My brother and first wife left the church. It was very painful, I asked questions.
I don’t have all the answers, sometimes I wonder about the Old Testament God. I feel closer to the Joseph Smith/Mormon God, but what if things are harsher than I imagine?
I actually currently serve as EQ president in my ward right now. But I live in a large, east coast city, and although I have no doubts of my own, I sometimes happen into those that do. I think they locally feel accepted just fine, but in the larger picture don’t like feel that their personally identity meshes with the church’s identity. Political beliefs have undoubtedly played a huge role in many people’s faith concerns. As a society, we more and more value expression of ones self as the highest ideal. If one disagrees with church teachings, that creates a conflict. I guess the fact I have no desire to be an activist keeps my faith stronger.
I wish you the best. Thank you for sharing and, I guess, allowing me to share a few thoughts as well. I’ll try to come back and monitor your story, although social media and blogging is not really my thing, I somehow ended up here so I will try and follow it through. I will honestly pray that you will find peace. Peace surpasses all things, once peace is attained, nothing else is necessary.
I really appreciate your comment and sentiments. Thanks.
Cyber hugs to you and your sweet husband!
Cyber hugs received! Thank you.
Out of the several different articles I’ve read on this matter, I thoroughly enjoyed your take on this. Brilliant!
That’s incredibly sweet of you to say, thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for sharing your story.
It’s sad that there are some members of the church that are on constant vigil to find reasons to exclude others from their church. I’m starting to see more and more of it at the local level.
Someone with doubts or imperfections can’t help but wonder when their mote will finally be discovered and cause them to be next in line for a disciplinary council. If the church really isn’t a spa for the saints, if it really is a hospital for the sick, then why does it feel more and more like a country club that continues to raise the price of admission so that the club can be even more exclusive than it was before?
Very poignant comment. Thanks for sharing!
Lori, You are quite young, very naive, and don’t seem to know anything about Mormonism conflicts of the past. What happened to you has happened to many people over the years, notably Sonya Johnson (1970’s), or the September Six who were excommunicated in 1993. There have been many others over time, so your plight, although poignant, is hardly newsworthy, especially to people like me who have realized the scam of Mormonism and have chosen to get out. We have done it without the press, the whining, the pleas for attention. You have cited your church involvement, to convince all of us that you are not the ordinary skeptic. I will believe you’re not a publicity hound when I see you discard your callings, your garments, your statements of testimony and leave the cult–without any hullabaloo. That’s when you will have earned my attention.
Thanks for your comment, however accusatory.
I am young, but I am well-read. I only said that I was the first to receive a court invite for OW. I am well aware of the september 6 and the many, many mormon feminists before me. I learned about them from Mormon Stories in the first place, actually.
As to the rest of your assumptions. My meeting with my bishop was 6 months ago. A lot can happen in 6 months. I can just testify that my summer wardrobe has significantly improved since last year.
Thanks for taking the time to read the essay and comment. Please try to give people the benefit of the doubt and be supportive rather than condescending.
Lori Burkman,
Would someone please answer me this? Why is it such a big deal? Why do women want to be ordained anyway? The Priesthood is not a privilege or a right. It is a responsibility. Can be a difficult one. I for one would never aspire to any kind of leadership role. Be careful what you wish for. I don’t feel the need to show or prove anything to anyone or to show how much knowledge do or don’t have. So all of this is a complete mystery to me.
I think that is a fabulous question. I will freely admit that the majority of women in the church do not seek ordination for the exact reasons you are mentioning. Who wants more work and responsibility?
But there are many, many of us for whom further opportunities to serve and be active would be incredibly welcomed. For so many women, church is very hard and stifling. It can be so diminishing to be side-lined for everything. We can’t baptize, be witnesses to baptisms, bless our children, hold our babies while they’re blessed, be in prayer circles, or be any part of any ordinance. It sends a strong message that even standing in a circle to bless a baby is unacceptable and would somehow void or taint the process simply because you’re a woman. There are many women who have lost their husbands for whatever reason, so that means that no one in their proper family when blessings or ordinances are needed. Yes, there is always someone else you can ask; but that doesnt mean that it isn’t very hard on many families. Women perform priesthood ordinances in the temple, we are all robed in the priesthood there as well, and it is our mantle in the afterlife–so why not here on earth? This whole “women are mothers and men are priesthood holders” simply does not equate. ALL worthy males can hold the priesthood, but not all women become mothers. Also, men have FATHERHOOD to complement the blessing of motherhood. Yes, women are pregnant and nurse, but that is a two year span of a 90 year life–it in no way compares to holding the Priesthood, which is a life-long calling that permeates all levels of the church.
For me personally, I think the biggest problem is that women are not included in the administration of the church and over time have lost all of our autonomy we once had (see here: http://feministmormonhousewivespodcast.org/episode-73-the-history-of-lds-correlation/ ). We are left completely out of finances (though that used to be a primary role), we can’t be part of disciplinary counsels, we can’t even serve as effectively as missionaries because we aren’t given the authority (I served a mission, being a woman was VERY annoying when it came to doing the work). We simply can’t be part of SO MANY meetings that affect the general church, half of which are women. At best we give counsel, but without being part of the deciding process at all levels–it simply is not enough.
Youth funding and programs are incredibly disproportionately funded and set up to favor boys. Our manuals and programs are not made with female input–why? Because we don’t have the priesthood so our needs and POVs aren’t even present in the committees.
Here are is my blog post about how stunted even Chieko Okazaki felt when in the General RS presidency and how this reflects the plight of women in the church not being included: http://rationalfaiths.com/why-arent-the-women-included/
Or here, where the president from that same time period states that the women came up with several programs to benefit the church that were completely ignored and dropped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFCWUoXr1Dg
Or here, just to see what it feels like to be in a patriarchal church. http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2007/03/a-walk-in-pink-moccasins/
I wonder if I would have stayed in the LDS church if I’d known more people like you. >_>
My personal path has taken me outside of it, in the direction of something like Shinto and animism. But I have so much respect for those who are, for whatever reason, trying to make the LDS church more humane and less abusive. I feel like I have more in common with progressive Mormons than with exmormons, and am more consistently inspired by posts like yours than I am by the kind of “skepticism” that tells people their feelings are wrong.
Please keep up what you’re doing, especially now. I don’t feel comfortable asking anyone to support or pay tithing to what I feel is an abusive church organization. But I also feel like, for the people inside the LDS church who recognize how abusive it is, it’s not about supporting the organization so much as supporting the people inside.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Wow, what a lovely comment. Thanks so much for your support.
you're a moron!