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Here in the 17th installment of the “Ask a Mormon Sex Therapist” series Jennifer answers two more questions submitted from listeners. Both questions address desire and desirability from different points of view.
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If you have a question for the good doctor you can comment below OR send an email to askdrfife@rationalfaiths.com
Music: Sugar Blues (Pubic Domain)
The answers to the second question were extremely frustrating to listen to. Your responses showed more of your own biases than being helpful to the questioner. He was clear that he loved his wife and wants to stay with her. His concern was a lack physical response; he wanted practical steps he could take in order to get over/deal with feelings he was clear he wanted to overcome. You seemed to intimate that he was rejecting his wife when in fact the exact opposite was happening. He loves, chooses, and wants to desire his wife. Your responses (“it’s part of our maturation”) were demeaning to someone who came to you for help.
Practical responses such as “start a journal wherein you list all the positive and desirable things about your wife” or “make an effort to go out of your way to ease things for your wife” i.e., vacuum, do the dishes, bathe the children or whatever. Offering to cook all the meals means you may relieve your wife of a stress and provide a healthy meal at the same time. Get a babysitter and go for walks with your wife where you just chat about stuff. Little steps, taken with great love, over time may yield the results. Prayer will also help a great deal. The Lord is concerned about what you’re concerned about and wants to help you in all aspects of your life.
I’m pulling my hair out. I feel horrible about that I may have taken advantage of my wife (w/o realizing until years later). I now understand that I need to have her “involved” as well. Though, every time I say “sometimes the things you say make me feel..” it turns into s fight and she walks away mad at me. I’ve tried and tried to bring this up to her many times, delicately even and somehow I always end up the bad guy with her pissed off. I’ve even said if we can’t work this out we are done. That can get me a few weeks of notice and attention but she’d rather just trust I’m home taking care of the house snd as long as it’s in good order she can ignore me. I’m realivly new to the mr. Mom game and you know I’d rather like a little gradidude for my efforts. I had a stroke theee years ago and for a long long time even standing and doing the dishes took a few hours. I had to take brakes but that isn’t the point. A few years ago when things were really difficult she paid attention and was grateful but now if I get a thanks for cooking it’s a holiday. Has she gotten to stressed having me around or does she think I’m not doing enough? I just want a happy home where we are side by side leading the way not one person in front of the other, putting the spouse behind them. I feel grateful for the compermises we did make and a compromise involved making love but she acts like it’s a check list if she’s on her monthly or sick or me she tosses and turns all night but when she checks it off. She sleeps like a baby. I just don’t understand how she wouldn’t even want to understand the way I feel or even say “I’m sorry you feel that way I never ment….” I’m pulling my hair out a little more of this and I give up I can’t try alone.
Update an hour later. I tried again but o disscuss with her many hat we could do as a couple. We hardly go out on just the two of us dates or talk like we used too or several other things. She would rather end it all than look at herself and evaluate herself. I got mad and said she must be emotionally cheating on me if not than what is going on. She just said we a thru, done, its over.
With regard to the question from the man about not being attracted to his overweight wife, I think sometimes men can be very critical of eachother for being attracted to someone outside the norm of what is considered sexy. I feel like sometimes we can let this fear of what other men think affect us too much. Its certainly a mistake I made when I was younger and dating and I think I let it ruin at least one good relationship. I will try not to make it again as I continue to date. I grew up outside the church and only converted a little over a year ago, but I feel like if I had gotten married young I might have missed out on the opportunity to learn what is really important in a sexual relationship.
Thank you for this pod cast. It is exactly what I have been struggling with in my own marriage. I appreciate the pod casts. Since, I found them, they have been very helpful. I am looking forward to the next one about trust. Because of my previous marriage, trusting my current husband is so hard and certainly not fair to him. That being said, early on in our marriage, he admitted to still being in love with his ex girlfriend. He says that us no more, but that is hard to get passed. I will continue to listen for helpful advice.
Dr. Fife, in a previous episode you talked about how most women can’t orgasm through intercourse alone; I fit into that category but oral sex, while pleasurable at first, doesn’t achieve the desired goal for me. I have noticed that the most effective way for me to climax is through clitoral stimulation at the same time as intercourse. My husband and I have a healthy marriage and sex life but I was wondering what your thoughts are on bringing vibrators into the equation? Is it something you would recommend for or against and why?
Thanks!
I struggle too with this. I feel that a vibrator when used with spouses is ok. My husband and I prayed about it so should you. Masturbation is not ok but foreplay is ok for a husband and wife. I would just pay about it and see. When I controlled the vibrator during sex my husband felt bad. When he did it I didn’t climax. So I guide him and then we were able to both enjoy each other.
Elder Packer stated “we do not enter the bedrooms of our members”. You guys, these topics are private and talk about sacred intimate husband wife relationships. We don’t need a doctor or anyone else to tell us what’s ok and not ok. Your Savior wants what will bring you unity and love between you and your spouse. These choices are yours to make. Don’t let guilt lead your choices regarding intimacy; this is one sacred thing that we only be shared with one person, our spouse. Don’t let guilt guide your choices, God has given a husband to his wife and a wife to her husband completely.
To be clear, pornography would not be appropriate because it brings in others. And this union is meant to be sacred, a husband and wife relationship, a covenant made with a man, a woman, and God.
The first question you answered here was mine.
After listening (three times!), I can see that what I’m dealing with is exactly as you state: my husband hasn’t ‘chosen’ me. He doesn’t want to engage emotionally and because of that pulls away from feeling emotions. I think that’s why he was so uncomfortable in counseling, anything that makes him ‘feel’ stresses him out. He’d rather go comfortably along the surface of a relationship than get personally involved. (He’s this way with our children and other family members as well.)
Many of his behaviors over the years make a lot more sense to me with this newfound perspective.
You mention that I took it personally, and yes, you’re right about that. I’m a good partner (I’d even say a GREAT partner – and he wouldn’t contradict it) and he certainly should have no reason not to love me. He even tells me so. I am, however, profoundly insecure in my own desirability. I don’t feel I’m a particularly attractive person physically and I’ve been insecure about it most of my life. My first reaction to negativity from him was to immediately go into ‘I’m not good enough’ mode and start beating myself up. Not having a lot of personal confidence, instead of realizing our issues were about HIM, I took it personally and thought I wasn’t good enough. It fueled my feelings of worthlessness and made me feel powerless in my marriage.
I grew up in a very large family and have a very ingrained pattern of helping and giving others what they need, whether or not my needs are fulfilled. I’m not a selfish person. I’ve dealt with depression most of my married life, and now I understand why. I’ve never felt valued by him, and I’ve allowed it to make me feel ‘less than.’
I have a lot of work to do. Thank you for your help.
Hi Sus, Some questions for you to grapple with might be, given that you are a “great partner”, how then in your mind are you undesirable? Why does your behavior in your marriage not accrue to your desirability (in your own mind)? What are your beliefs about desirability in a woman? Are these beliefs you can accept or are they problematic for you? I think you are living in some contradiction and sorting through that will help you get free of giving so much of your strength away in this relationship (and perhaps in others). Hope this helps. JFF
Dr. Finlayson-Fife, During this podcast I was struck by the concept you briefly discussed regarding separateness in a relationship, and of a lack of entitlement, yet both partners choosing. This feels very important. Would you be willing to elaborate on this in the next podcast? What does it look like in a relationship if this is in place? What does it look like in a relationship if this is not in place?
I have a concern I’m wondering if Dr. Findlayson-Fife can address: My husband and I were married in the temple and have worn garments ever since. It was a tough adjustment for me–I find them uncomfortable, hot, and I feel matronly in them. (As a side note, I know I’m attractive, I know my husband finds me attractive, and find my husband very much so.) My husband has stated many times that he is totally turned off by garments. He said they’re like a “barrier that he has to peel off.” He refuses to take them off of me and has always left undressing me to myself unless I’m wearing something else, like lingerie. As I’ve nurtured my own sexuality, I’ve come to realize that spontaneity in my sex life is something I desperately need. I don’t like scheduling sex and I’d prefer to initiate, or to have my husband initiate, when the feeling strikes rather than even waiting long enough to change into lingerie. I’m happy in our sex life other than with this one aspect that I can’t find a way around. I want to keep my covenants AND find a way to encourage spontaneous action. Can such a feat be done?
Thank you so much for addressing and discussing the second question about finding our spouses physically attractive as we age. I was very interested in the commentary about choosing the whole person instead of just the body. Regarding this, I have a question: How can I teach myself to love my spouse’s whole person when over the past five years, they have dramatically changed in every aspect of their life (neglecting their physical and spiritual self in a lot of ways) and are very resistant to and defensive about any kind of discussion when I bring it up? I love my spouse and was originally attracted to the great mind, dedication to Christ, willingness to serve and share with the world, and many other non-physical traits that my spouse possesses. Of course, I was very physically attracted as well but that attraction was secondary to me. Over the past five years, my spouse has become very obsessed with work and frequently works over 80 hours per week. My once-athletic spouse has gained a significant amount of weight that has caused alarmingly high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lack of energy, and outgrowth of clothing that can be purchased at regular stores. My spouse has stopped attending church meetings altogether and stopped wearing garments, won’t offer time to serve or help others and gets upset when I do, and has started saying very crass, inappropriate, and embarrassing things in front of our children and family members. We haven’t attended the temple together in over nine years because my spouse doesn’t want to go, which is difficult for me because for many years, it was a sanctuary where we would go together to feel more spiritually connected to each other and to God, and we always felt more physically connected afterward. When my spouse is home from work, sleep, food, and sex are the only interests that are pursued. I want to love my spouse as a whole person and am having a very difficult time reconciling all of these changes. As a result, I have almost no sexual desire for my spouse which makes me sad and I feel guilty for not wanting to have sex with a person who seems like a stranger. I have always been the lower-desire partner which has presented a bit of a challenge during our 16 years of marriage and now that I have almost no desire at all, our relationship is very tense and unpleasant on every level. I have tried multiple times to address these issues with my spouse and develop a plan to mutually work on solutions, but nothing seems to work; instead of acknowledging these concerns I have (whether they are justified or not might be an entirely different issue) my spouse accuses me of being very ungrateful for the hard work they do and accuses me of being unappreciative that I am the partner who stays home, takes care of our children, and gets to take time to pursue my interests and hobbies. Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated!
With regard to the question from the man about not being attracted to his overweight wife, I think sometimes men can be very critical of eachother for being attracted to someone outside the norm of what is considered sexy. I feel like sometimes we can let this fear of what other men think affect us too much. Its certainly a mistake I made when I was younger and dating and I think I let it ruin at least one good relationship. I will try not to make it again as I continue to date. I grew up outside the church and only converted a little over a year ago, but I feel like if I had gotten married young I might have missed out on the opportunity to learn what is really important in a sexual relationship.