(This post was co-authored by my husband, William John Silverman, Jr. This is something he and I have discussed together at great length, and the words here are a joint effort. You can check out William’s bio on our guest blogger page.)
Let’s talk vulnerability. Most moments of vulnerability come when we find ourselves in a position to open up to someone, in other words, to place our trust in someone. When we expose secrets (whatever they are) about ourselves to someone else (whoever they are), we put ourselves into a vulnerable situation. That vulnerability is, to some degree, a cultural construct that comes from centuries of conditioning that resulted from harsh judgment, penalties/punishments, ostracism, and even the simple fear of what that other person, or anyone, might now think about us.
In the church, members are encouraged to take advantage of the atonement. We appreciate that focus, but are often befuddled by the innumerable roads men and women have taken to find the peace which only forgiveness brings. This is where the vulnerability comes in because the policies of the church require us to have a confessional with our bishops (and sometimes stake presidents) depending on the degree or severity of our transgressions. We see these men as our judges in Israel and so the deciders of our worthiness. And this process totally goes down like a box of chocolates because you never know what you are going to get. You can get a kind, loving bishop who handles you with delicacy—or you could get a judgmental bishop who makes you jump through unnecessary hoops until he deems you worthy again. We’ve all heard ample stories from across the spectrum. This is especially a problem for the youth of our church, and maybe even especially for girls. William, by his own admission, never voluntarily confessed anything to a bishop as a youth until he faced specific questions from his bishop. While he was mostly a good kid, he had his share of indiscretions. Why did he not consider bringing up his sinful nature in the multitude of interviews he had over the years despite knowing full well, in most cases, based upon what church leaders had taught him, that many of the things he had participated in were sinful and in some cases, in need of serious repentance? One word: awkward. And he admits now that he cannot even fathom how uncomfortable a young woman feels when she confesses sins of any kind, but especially sexual transgressions to an older (sometimes much older man). The thought of doing it made even him cringe, especially when it came to sexual transgressions.
And looking back over the years, he has had conversations similar in topic with several different leaders, and each one of them has reacted differently. The one that stands out for him, and that he feels left him with a greater desire to live righteously than any other, came from a really gentle leader. After going through the confessional, William was sitting in agony awaiting the response, having been convinced based upon what people in the church taught, that something was wrong with him and that someone as righteous and close to the spirit as this leader would think he was disgusting. However, this priesthood leader, in an instant, said these exact words: “well … the Lord has forgotten about it and so will I. Have a nice day.” So simple, so loving, so kind. The end. William rode a spiritual high for months.
For Leah Marie’s part, the pinnacle experience she had with a priesthood leader was not so warm and fuzzy. When she was in college (her freshman year) she had a one on one with a bishop that turned into something very, very awkward. He asked questions and used language that made her squirm in a big way. She remembers giving short answers and plowing through the conversation because she just wanted it to end. She wishes that she’d had the courage to say something to him about how inappropriate the conversation was. But not only was she merely 18, he was an authority figure, and she’d been taught all her life that he was the judge of her worthiness. She thought she had no control over that conversation. And the memory of that conversation haunted her for years. It wasn’t until years later, in conversation with a different bishop as she discussed the haunting of the memory, that she received some validation that the old bishop had been totally out of line. That went a long way in healing some damage done, but the memory still burns. It burns.
Another experience that Leah Marie had was not actually with her own confessional. Once upon a time she was serving in a Young Women’s presidency, and had a troubled young girl sit in front of her after their weekly activity and spill her guts. She was in a bad way. Drugs, sex, and rock n’ roll (minus the rock n’ roll). It was a full on confessional and Leah Marie was the confessor. This young woman had clearly come to a precipice and wanted to back down from it. Her grief was evident, and her desire to close that chapter of her life and make a different path were clear. She was ready to clean her slate and start anew.
The problem? That confessional didn’t count. What might have been a cleansing moment and a big breakthrough for her ended with her saying, “But, my parents are making me go see the bishop this week and I just can’t tell him all of that. I can’t.” It wasn’t that she wasn’t sorry for her choices, and it wasn’t that she didn’t want to make some changes. It wasn’t that she lacked faith, and it wasn’t that she wasn’t willing to work hard and be accountable. It was that the shame and awkwardness of sitting in front of a much older man (even though he was actually a wonderful man and she would’ve been winning the leadership roulette there, she just didn’t know that) and talking about intimate things was too much for her. And we can’t blame her, can we?
Part of the problem here is the dynamic of a young woman sitting with a much older man and discussing intimate sexual things. As the parents of three boys, we are also concerned with having our young men (when they reach that age) sit with a much older man and have these conversations. We’ve become hyper aware of the fact that this is a gender neutral problem. And there is no other circumstance in which we would see that as acceptable (think of it: a teacher at school? no. a coach? absolutely not? a neighbor? call the cops). Regardless of the fact that bishops in the LDS church are left *entirely* untrained to council in these matters, our culture has trained us to believe that this is somehow acceptable. Perhaps because we believe that bishops are called of God, and so have the “mantle” they need to address these issues. We might believe that were true, if I didn’t have so many stories (ours and others’) under our belts about how poorly some bishops have handled these situation. Indeed, in some of these stories the bishops behavior was downright criminal, as in, could totally qualify for sexual harassment.
We’ve got a couple of solutions. One is to involve more women in the process in general. And we still believe that would help in many cases. Either having a woman whose job it was to sit in (the Relief Society or Young Women’s President?) or giving women permission to stand is as a judge for other women. We think this should especially apply to disciplinary councils, since we’ve heard some pretty horrific stories of what women have faced in these meetings. They say the intent of a disciplinary council is to help people return to Christ, but when women come away from being interrogated by a group of men about intimate sexual details of their lives, they more often come away feeling more violated than they do redeemed.
Another solution—that we as parents plan on employing—is to have a parent sit in on all interviews with a minor. When you think about it, this really should be a no brainer. However, many people have started demanding this and get a lot of push back from their leadership. We’ve heard stories about parents telling the bishop in clear terms that he cannot meet with their child without a parent present… only to have the bishop secretly pull the child aside and do a clandestine meeting anyway. That is actually pretty common, and the bishops in those cases feel totally justified in doing so. Which is horrifying. So, we plan to be clear, we plan to be firm, and we plan to file police reports if our wishes are not respected. No joke.
But, here is the ultimate solution. And that is for the bishop to remember who he is and what he is doing there. A bishop is a judge in Israel, yes, but we feel as though far too often, that is all a bishop sees himself as: a judge, ready to hand down a verdict and punishment. However, a bishop is first a shepherd who watches over one of the Lord’s flocks. He is meant to stand in for the Lord, act as an advocate. The bishop is he who should, as the Lord often did, offer comfort. The point we are trying to make is that when someone places themselves in that position of vulnerability that we discussed, and confesses to a bishop or priesthood leader and is met with resistance, immediate judgment, and harsh punishment, they are more likely to regress spiritually; and to feel their worth diminish. But when met with love and not with judgment, that same man or woman will feel the love of our Savior and the power of His atonement.
And so many of these awkward, terrible, and sometimes harassing moments would be avoided if these bishops would remember they are standing in for the Savior. Would the Savior probe into a young woman’s sexual life so much that she came away from a conversation with Him feeling violated? Would he ask a 12 year old boy such intimate details about things like masturbation that the young boy came away from the conversation feeling dirty? No. And the idea of the Savior saying those things is disgusting to those who worship Him. The idea of bishops saying those things and having those conversations should be equally disgusting. Just as the Savior said to the woman taken in adultery (without needed to know the details of her transgressions), so every bishop should simply say to the humble repentant man or woman, girl or boy, “neither do I condemn thee.”
Leah Marie
Leah Marie earned a BA in Political Science, and a Masters in Public Administration. She is currently working towards her PhD in Public Policy. She is wife to an English professor, and mother to 3 beautiful boys.
All posts by Leah Marie
I disagree that a bishop shouldn’t ask certain questions, like masturbation.
Believe it or not, some kids don’t actually know what that is. Some do it, and they feel sick inside, but they don’t know why.
As for asking Aaronic Priesthood holders that question, yes, it is important, because they are blessing and passing the sacrament, standing in for the Lord, just like the bishop. If the bishop feels prompted to ask those questions, or if it is in the handbook of instructions, then he needs to ask.
Asking detailed questions to a female about sex helps him to understand whether it was actually sex that she agreed to, or was it petting, or was it rape. One girl told her bishop she had sex, but she failed to mention that she didn’t agree to it; and the bishop got some flack for not reporting the rape.
Better to ask the questions then to let a rapist go free.
It is no different telling a bishop (even a much older bishop) than it would be to tell a male therapist, doctor, counselor, etc.
“It is no different telling a bishop (even a much older bishop) than it would be to tell a male therapist, doctor, counselor, etc.”
No difference… except all of the years of training and education and experience and professionalism…. riiiight.
And, yeah, asking questions about masturbation is so NOT in the handbook of instructions.
Thanks you Leah!
Terri, there is no kid that masturbated, not knowing what it was,and felt bad about it….without first being told by a leader or other adult that it was something bad. And to your comment that bishops should ask these kinds of questions and that it is just like talking to a doctor, counselor, etc….you are dead wrong. Those are trained professionals who have studied and practiced their profession and are trained to help in their respective fields. A bishop is not trained on issues like this, doesn’t have the knowledge, isn’t an expert, and should never try to deal with these issues. As to whether or not a woman had sex, was raped, or was “petting”(why the crap was that word even used ever)…the bishop is trained on none of that. The authorities need to determine that…the police authorities….not a lay bishop.
I agree. Totally inappropriate.
Thank you Garrett, good points.
It is absolutely not a bishop’s job to determine if a girl has been raped. And the idea that a girl would not divulge that to a bishop when discussing intimate details of her sex life with him speaks volumes more about the inappropriateness of the conversation and with rape culture in general than it does anything else.
We had a son 16 and a daughter 13 who were surprise interviewed during mutual/MIA one night. Not only did this bishop lock the door and tell them in their individual horror experience that they were not going to be allowed to leave until they confessed masturbation, but they were harassed during this 15 minute or more experience about being sexual perverts.
My daughter came home crying and asking what mazerbation was… she had no idea. My son and daughter refused to go to church for several months until this man was released. In the mean time our daughter woke up screaming night after night for months with nightmares about this bishop..
We called our Stake president who assured us the bishop was the finest man and he knew him well and didn’t believe our children’s stories…
We called SLC that night and was told that the bishop had no right to ask about specific sexual sins. He was to just ask if the child was morally clean or keeping themselves morally clean…
SLC later sent a letter to our Stake President explaining this same thing to him. So I totally disagree with anyone who says a bishop can pry into personal things of this nature with impunity..
Also… how is a child to come to a point of repentance… if they are yanged about like this?
I believe bishops should be called for life… as mature and spiritually endowed leaders… not just thrown into the ladder climbing bunch… that can be replaced every 5 years until you have a bunch of X bishops in the crowd… sharing intimate details they have received over the years… and they do share even with wives and friends… we have experienced that…
Sandra, thank you for sharing your experiences. And I am just so sorry that your family has dealt with them. My heart goes out to you. This is indeed an example of how damaging these practices can be.
Thanks Leah. I appreciate you article more than you know.
Great Post! I have always thought that a Bishop should be a mediator between his flock and the Lord. Jesus calls himself the great mediator. I wish we as LDS would explore this concept a little more and understand how powerful mediation is in dealing with conflicts and complext issues. Imagine a Bishop as a mediator, trying to guide us to mutually satisfying solutions to problems between us and God. Mediators do not judge, but help bring parties together (at-one-ment.) Mediation focuses on relationships not judgement. Think how different and empowering a bishop’s interview could be from a mediation perspective.
This is such a great point, Adam. Thanks for making it.
Adam that is perfect! and Leah the post was right on!
Adam I love your thoughts … I do believe it is what the Lord had in mind.
A thoughtful article, based on your hearts’ reactions to your life experiences. On judgmental authorities: I left the church some time ago. While judgmental authorities were not the primary reason, they were a contributor. So were the self-appointed “authorities” in the other pews. When you’re in difficulties, speaking to the clueless is not an answer. Mormon bishops and stake presidents may be engineers, accountants, attorneys, all of which have a very different skill set from someone in a counseling profession. Not that all those in the counseling professions are equally skilled and empathetic – obviously, they are not – but I do believe they have a better starting point on this than does someone whose achievements start with “BS, engineering’ MBA; MS, engineering.” As for the young lady you referenced: I don’t know her, but the issues you bring up just scream to me, “ADDICTION!!” I am sincerely hoping she got some help with the issues. It’s a subject I know way more about than I ever wanted to.
This is a much needed discussion. The system we have now where members and especially youth are told they need to talk about/confess and often answer detailed questions is inappropriate to say the least! These men are not trained professionals and they are being put in an awkward position. They should not feel it’s their duty/responsibility or right to engage in these types of interviews. If a school counselor took one of our children out of class ans asked them about their sexual habits we would have a lawsuit. For some reason in the church we’ve bought into the idea that this is perfectly normal and OK. That somehow because of their calling as Bishop they will be inspired to know what/how to ask…. there are too many stories of this going bad and causing lots of emotional trauma.
So true, Alison. It’s almost as if, for some, shaming the repentant man or woman is requisite to the process, but the Savior never shamed those who came to him during his mortal ministry.
Across the street from my ward is a popular church with a huge active youth group. I asked two of the pastors (main and youth), if they ever held private audiences with their kids. They both said no. They occasional speak to the group as a whole to praise their many services and their obvious love for each other, but that is the nature of spiritual connection. Their attendance is high end with non-members often coming to join in the sports, drama, music, etc. Why can’t the LDS church understand this?
Because there is a huge weight on worthiness.
In our home “proper priesthood authority” is the parents. Letting our underage children spend time alone with any adult of any sex is unthinkable to us. Even the Boy Scouts have this figured out with their “2 deep” rule. It’s too bad leaders and parents don’t insist on everyone following this rule that is so obviously in the leader’s and child’s best interest. My husband would never put himself in a situation where a child could accuse him of doing anything inappropriate. I can’t believe this isn’t simple common sense to everyone.
Indeed Jane. It *is* simple common sense. Hopefully we can get more people to see that.
I once confessed to my bishop that my long term boyfriend was hitting me. He told me that it was my fault since we were not married clearly I was frustrating him since we were not having sex. His advice was to marry the boy immediately. He spoke with authority from god. So I married the boy. I often wonder what’s life would be if I had told someone with training to counsel people.
Anna – That breaks my heart. I’m sorry you experienced that!
When I see articles like these, it makes me so grateful for “winning the bishop roulette” during my teen years. When I lived in Utah during middle school, I remember constantly feeling awful about myself because I masturbated because we had leadership who would berate us young men from time to time about how hideous a sin it was. (Next to murder on the scale of sins!)
That shame festered for a long time until I finally confessed (unsolicited) to a bishop a few years later after moving to the east coast. He was very kind, loving, and had a great sense of proportion. I came away from that conversation feeling so much better, having heard what I really needed to hear.
Comment
Terri,
When I was 12, I learned what masturbation was and realized I’d been doing it. I wanted to be good, so I went to the bishop to confess. The sick feeling I had in my stomach was not because I knew I was sinning, but because I did NOT want to talk about my sexuality with an old man I didn’t really know.
And after I confessed, he told me I was disgusting. So yeah, talking to a bishop is definitely NOT the same as talking to a counselor who has been trained to deal with certain issues with people of certain ages.