As a mother of two young daughters, I have been contemplating modesty in the LDS church and what I want to teach my daughters.
It seems to be a tricky subject. In the Mormon culture, modesty is a wide, sweeping term. Our leaders have said that we should be modest in our appearance. Companies marketing modest clothing, Church publications, temple garments, or honor codes can all shape an individual’s definition of what modesty entails. Everything kind of gets mixed together and we have adult and youth “standards” of dress being taught to children.
And I can understand why parents are teaching them. Time after time members are told to teach their children to dress modestly at a young age. That we can’t start teaching them about modesty soon enough. Most parents simply teach their children modesty according to what they feel is modest (usually this is according to what is in the For The Strength of Youth handbook) and immodest.
Suddenly we have three and four and five year olds singling out their friends and asking why they are wearing something immodest. The problem with that is that we now have a little girl who is looking at herself and seeing something wrong with herself that she didn’t see before because of what she is wearing.
One of the beauties of childhood is how carefree and innocent children are. What they are wearing and what their friends are wearing usually is the last thing on their mind. At least it should be.
And yet, because we are told in talks from church leaders that we should teach modesty to our children and that it’s never too young to start to do so, we have children who are all too happy to single out the child wearing a tank top or sleeveless dress and tell them that they are immodest or dressed inappropriately.
As we teach our children to focus on their clothing choices, we are also teaching them to focus on the clothing choices of their peers. We are teaching them to be critical of others. Our children do not need another thing to be criticized over, nor do they need something to criticize in others, especially being critical of what another person is wearing or not wearing.
I feel that we are setting our children up for bigger issues as they grow up. Since they have been taught the modest/immodest rhetoric and have been singling out their peers (if not by saying it, by thinking it) for dressing immodestly from a young age, being critical of their peers’ clothing choices in Jr. High and High School is much more amplified than it may otherwise be in a society where the modest/immodest rhetoric was not emphasized in childhood.
It becomes easy to older children and teenagers to criticize their peers either publicly (think mean girls), in a small group (gossip/whispers), or to mentally think less of them since it has been ingrained in their mind since they were three years old that immodest, as taught to them by their parents, equals bad or lesser.
So what is modesty and how do we teach it?
First of all, I think it’s important to recognize that the idea of dressing modestly is about sexuality. While our intent with our children is clearly not sexual, the whole idea of modesty IS to dress in a way to prevent sexual attraction.
Wikipedia states: “The word is also used, more about women than men, to describe a mode of dress and deportment intended not to encourage sexual attraction in others”
From LDS.org: “Central to the command to be modest is an understanding of the sacred power of procreation, the ability to bring children into the world. This power is to be used only between husband and wife. Revealing and sexually suggestive clothing, which includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, and shirts that do not cover the stomach, can stimulate desires and actions that violate the Lord’s law of chastity.”
When we think of modesty in it’s true manner- that it is a way to dress to prevent sexual attraction of others, then it seems absurd that we are teaching our children that other children dressed in a tank top are immodest and thus, dressing in a way to encourage sexual attraction of others.
This is what modest and immodest means.
We need to take a step back and examine what we are really meaning to teach our children, which is probably that it’s important to keep our bodies coverd. It’s likely that those parents who dress their kids in sleeveless clothing and tank tops are probably trying to teach their children the same thing.
Sister Dalton said, “Instead of drawing a “line in the sand” regarding what young women should or should not wear, it is time that Latter-day Saints draw a line in their heart. It is believing your body is a temple for your spirit.”
I think that the use of modest/immodest terms while our children are young need to go. At the very least, let’s get rid of immodest. We need to stop drawing a line in the sand because what is immodest in one family, is not immodest in another.
As to how to teach modesty to your children? What about teaching them that you have decided wear (or not to wear) x or y because that is what you have chosen as the rules for your family?
I think echoing what Sister Dalton said about your body being a temple for your spirit is SO much more important and more meaningful than saying “this is modest/this is immodest” and thus “drawing a line in the sand”.
I think by teaching modesty in that regard, and without saying that someone who doesn’t have the same standards isn’t listening to the spirit or doesn’t have the spirit, is the key to changing the peer guilt and shaming that is starting way too young and being ingrained into our children’s minds.
At the end of the day, if what your child says to another child makes that child feel bad about themselves over something which they usually have no control over, nor any reason to feel bad about, it is something that doesn’t need to be said. Usually this means that we, as parents, need to use wisdom in what and how we teach our children.
Carrie Marsh
Carrie is a memorial artist and mom to 3 young children, and is being watched over by twin boys. When she isn't working, you can usually find her spending time with her family. If there is, by some miracle, extra time when she doesn't want to fall into her bed and sleep, she likes to indulge her creative side, where she dabbles in a bit of everything. She has been married to her husband, Jon, for over 10 years and they enjoy watching shows together, vacationing (who doesn't?!), and going on adventures.
All posts by Carrie Marsh
Carrie, I really love your notions on modesty and teaching it to children. I fear for the way our youth are being taught modesty these days–as if it is all about a girl’s body and how many square inches of her skin can be showing, regardless of the activity at hand.
Whenever I hear the word “modesty” I am reminded of a visit to the LDS temple near my house about three years ago. The officiator, a wealthy and well-known car dealer in the Davis County, Utah area, was wearing the most shiney and sparkly gold, Rolex watch and everytime he’d move his arms, it would blind us. I touched my hands to my ears to feel where my small, gold-ish, $2.99 cent earrings had been before the temple worker in the women’s dressing room had reminded me to remove them, because they were “not appropriate”.
Bonnie – perfect example.
I like this essay.
I’ve read not too long ago that rape-culture is perpetuated by patriarchy in that patriarchy essentially calls all women a resource and asserts that women and girls do not own themselves; which fits right into rape culture which has an underlying assertion that women are available for sexual exploitation by men. I’m guessing, though, that this explanation is over-simplified. Our modesty-culture teaches the right to criticize people for what they are wearing, to think less of them, to impose a judgment on them mentally and when anything bad befalls them we say, “they partly deserved it”, so I think that the case can be made that Modesty-culture is also part of rape-culture. (Obviously, no one deserves to be raped no matter what they are wearing, even if nothing at all.)
I think that your idea to explain to your own kids what you are wearing and why is a good idea, but I have been going in a slightly different direction. I think that explaining to my kids why I chose my clothing on any day would again teach modesty-culture if I make judgments of the “impact” of clothing, or in other words, if I teach my children that what I wear gives other people signals. Because we live in a fallen world, people do *assume signals* but teaching that it is right to operate according to assumptions (or support the “assumption because of dress” culture) is what I am identifying as a problem. So, in our family of kids ages 11, 15, 18, and 20 we are teaching that clothing is all about what pleases the person in the clothing, and that no one should make any judgments of anyone else based on clothing because every single person is dressing to be happy themselves. We are telling them that clothing or no clothing is not the issue– treat every person with respect and assume zero messages for you from clothing.
I know that isn’t perfect either but it is the best we can come up with at this time.
I really like the approach you are taking and I would love to do something similar.
I usually try my best to let my 3 year old wear what she wants. She likes to wear pants with skirts and loves her purple water shoes… with everything. And yes, she has worn them to church. 🙂
The whole concept really resonates with me as I do feel more empowered and happier when I take everyone else’s opinions out of it and wear what I makes ME feel good.
“shirts that do not cover the stomach.” Sigh. So we open missions in India where we convert old ladies who wear saris that leave uncovered a wide band of stomach and tell such old ladies that “they’re immodest, being sexual and they need to cover up?” Double sigh. American Puritan dress standard applied worldwide. Sigh.
Carrie, you also correctly state that, not matter how often we’re told not to judge other’s choices, that this is just about our own, humans just don’t work that way, especially little children, who notice when others don’t follow the same rules they have to. So, when leaders tell us that the spirit withdraws when we choose to wear clothing not approved by FTSOY–and I’ve heard that multiples times in varying ways–that in order to have the Spirit we must dress modestly–then we make the judgement that those in or out of the Church–women, generally–who wear sleeveless tops, or a shorter skirt or a bikini can’t ever have the influence of the Holy Ghost since these are the choices they make daily. I can testify that this is UNTRUE. False Doctrine. And I challenge anyone to quote me a scripture to support their assertion. I cannot think of anything Christ said while on this earth that stated or implied that modesty of dress–strictly defined, no less–in women is an vital principle or doctrine as it is pushed in the Church today. Crazy must stop. I hope the pendulum will swing back to the point that BYU will, once again, display their royalty’s photos from earlier times when strapless and spaghetti straps formals were the norm and guys didn’t faint at the sight–or offer harsh judgment about a date’s “spiritual” worth.
Perfect Carrie. Two-piece bathing suits on babies is not immodest. Babies playing in the sprinklers at home – not immodest. You hit the nail on the head. The way the word “modest” is presenlty used in common LDS parlance, by necessity, means that we are sexual beings. Babies are not sexual beings. Good job cuz.
Good post. There are a few things I would like to add because in the post you still only focused on modesty as it pertains to clothing. Modesty in Webster’s dictionary is propriety in dress, speech, and action. So what does propriety mean…it means appropriateness for a given situation. So what we need to be teaching our youth and adults in the church is appropriateness of dress, speech, and action for the given situation you might find yourself in. Some examples…is it modest to pay $1000 for a prim dress… no. Is it modest to wear grungy clothing to a formal dinner…no. is it modest to be telling jokes to someone that would be offended by the joke…no. is it modest to wear a two piece swim suit to the beach…yes. is it modest to wear sleeveless shirts when working outdoors or enjoying the sun…yes. is it modest to dress in one’s best clothing for an interview…yes. is it modest to judge others because you think you have the truth and they don’t…no. I could go on and on. The point is that modesty should be entirely taught from the standpoint of making good decisions as to what is appropriate based on the situation one might find themselves in. Sexuality and modesty as he church teaches it need to be stripped from all church manuals, conversations, talks, etc.
Garrett has nailed it that modesty is about propriety. Another way to think about it is whether you’re drawing appropriate attention. A young deacon in my ward was recently talking in sacrament meeting, and he mentioned something about how he tries to live righteously by dressing modestly, among other things, all the while standing up in front of the congregation with shoulder-length hair. Christ had modest long hair for his day, but in our culture, men with long hair are immodest. It’s nothing sexual – it’s about drawing undue attention. You can use modest to refer to a house or a car, which is also not something sexual. I love Bonnie’s example of the immodest watch. My teenagers, boys and girls, don’t wear sleeveless shirts, because it’s not modest for either, unless they’re swimming or playing basketball or volleyball. We all wear rashguards when swimming, actually. My littlest has some sleeveless dresses and a little bikini, because as was pointed out a baby isn’t sexual. Of course, a large part of modesty is sexual, even though it is so much more than that. Look at yourself in a full length mirror, and pay attention to where your eyes are immediately drawn. Or have a family member look at you and tell you what first catches their eye about what you’re wearing and then ask whether it’s appropriate or not and if it’s sexual or not. If a girl is wearing a top that is not too loose or tight and completely covers her, which most people would call modest yet has contrasting colors or patterns outlining the breasts, it’s drawing attention there and not modest. If a guy has his pants pulled down and boxers showing or tight pants that show every bulge, that’s not modest. I’m not so sure about M’s comment that the clothing you wear are only to make you happy or please yourself and that no one should make any judgments about that person based on their dress. I don’t know how you don’t make judgments on people based on their dress, grooming, and appearance. Every choice you make will influence how others judge you. That’s too bad when they judge you unrighteously or draw improper lines in the sand, but if you have the choice between white socks and lime green socks and you choose lime green socks, don’t be surprised when everyone asks you about your socks, just as the deacon shouldn’t be surprised when everyone asks him about cutting his hair, just as the girl hanging out of her shirt is going to have people look at her chest.
Oh, and breastfeeding in public…modest!
I’ve been thinking about this article quite a bit today. I do agree with the idea that modesty should be an attitude and overall way to live instead of a list of do’s and don’ts. However, I think it’s an awfully big jump to suggest that if we teach our children modesty guidelines when they are young, that they will automatically judge and criticize their friends.
I have always encouraged and purchased only modest clothes for my girls (ages 9 and 14). Because they have always dressed modestly (by church standards), there was no cut off age where they suddenly had to dress modestly and revamp their wardrobe. It simply became who they were and today my teenager would be extremely uncomfortable wearing anything too revealing or suggestive. We lived back east for over a decade, and they never questioned or acted self righteous when a non-member friend wore a bikini or tank top. They might have asked me why their friends wore something different than they did, and then I could simply explain that they had different standards in their family and weren’t members of our faith and we shouldn’t judge them. I wonder if the more important thing to teach our children is not too judge others instead of worrying about the modesty standards that we are teaching them.
Definitely agree that the bigger (and more Christlike) lesson is that of not judging others!
We lived out of Utah for nearly four years and I think most of the youth there had a more refreshing outlook because they did have friends that wore tank tops/bikinis and were still good people. However, I do think that it was hard for them to look at their other LDS friends and not be judgmental if they were wearing something “immodest” or doing something else that didn’t align with “church standards”.
I think there is a problem with judging those in our faith, which goes wider than modesty. There are countless facets of the gospel that some see as doctrine and others do not.
It’s easy to teach the lesson not to judge others when teaching a principle and say “well, they don’t believe the same things we do./They don’t know because they haven’t been taught./etc.”.
It’s much harder to look at the people around you who you think should not/should be doing something and not judge them when they are/are not.
My point is that even though you may feel that the outlined modesty “standards” are doctrine, others within the church do not agree.
So maybe just saying that different people/families have different standards and leaving the religious/faith grouping out of it would be a better approach to avoid the judgement within the church between members.
I agree with your sentiment. Teaching my daughters to dress modestly (by my standards which may exceed the church standards) is separate from my responsibility to teach her to respect others feelings and be kind.
There are many things that are acceptable to others in general, but not within the Church or within my family. It’s my responsibility to clarify these things for my children based on my understanding and testimony of these values. I don’t shape the rearing of my child to dance around those issues out of concern that she might recognize that some of our values might be different than those of our friends or neighbors. I do take responsibility for helping her navigate how to contemplate and respond to those differences.
So, I don’t want to be offensive or anything, but I totally disagree with this article. I think at some point, we need to stop worrying about supposedly “sexualizing” our little kids, and just obey. To me, it has nothing to do about anything sexual. I let my little kids run around the house in all sorts of states of undress but I make sure they’re wearing sleeves and one piece bathing suits out in public. I do teach them about being immodest and modest, and yes I have had embarrassing experiences where they’ve pointed out to others their lack of modesty. I’ve had similar experiences with people smoking as well. Should I not teach them smoking is bad? I want my kids in good habits young so it’s not even a question when they’re teenagers. I don’t even care about them being used to it for when they go through the temple and start wearing garments. Garments lengths and styles have changed ALOT over the course of the years and really isn’t my main issue. The main point for me is that prophets have asked us to dress modestly and outlined clearly in The Strength of Youth what that standard is. It’s easy to obey or easy to not obey. I am so imperfect at so many things, this is one thing, like tithing, that is a no brainer for me. As Elder L. Tom Perry said this last conference, “We must not pick and choose which commandments we think are important to keep but acknowledge all of God’s commandments. We must stand firm and steadfast, having perfect confidence in the Lord’s consistency and perfect trust in His promises.” Anyway, that’s just my opinion. And as a side note, when teaching modesty I hope I correctly teach the message of wise judgement, not judging others. I doubt there is any validity to teaching modesty=increased focus on peer’s clothing. However, studies have shown that the younger a kid attends preschool or daycare, the sooner they are aware of peer’s clothing and what is “cool” and what is not (as in brands). Which has nothing to do with what a parent teaches, just their exposure to a peer group.
Smoking is clearly bad for your health. Wearing something sleeveless… not so much.
On the note of making a good habit of what you wear when you are young, for me the fact that my child is wearing clothing is a good habit.
I think it just depends on what you feel you want the end result to be. It’s different for everyone, even though we all belong to the same faith.
For some, they want there to never be a question of what the standards are and they want to follow exactly what has been spelled out. If something was always the rule, then your teenagers can’t question it. Done.
I get that. I really do. It makes sense for a lot of people. And I am fine if that’s the way you want to go.
But for me, and many others, our children and teenagers are capable of being modest while wearing tank tops and shorter shorts, irregardless of what FTSOY lays out as approved/not approved.
As for what is outlined in the For The Strength of Youth, I think our leaders felt like they did need to draw a line to enforce what they felt should be the standard. Many members of our church need lines drawn for them. Look at mission rule handbooks.
While many feel that this spelled out standard of modesty is something that should be unquestionable obeyed, many members in our church do not agree with it.
I do not feel that we should be drawing a sweeping line in the sand for all to adhere to. What happened to the spirit of the law?
I cannot in good conscience teach my children that something sleeveless is bad. I just don’t feel like it’s immodest, regardless of age. I feel like the FSOTY drawing lines for us to then “just obey” is not the way to go.
Clearly, I’m more of a “spirit of the law” kind of gal. 😉
I’m hoping to teach my children the spirit of the law and let them govern themselves knowing that their clothing choices are about them and how they feel in it. I feel that how they feel about themselves and being able to recognize the spirit is far more important than a spelled out dress code that is enforced by guilt and shame.
So if we rationalize that we’re obeying the spirit of the law, we can do whatever we want?
Pretty much. That is what agency is. I think the bigger question though is how we treat one another who choose to approach this subject differently. I promise not to judge your choice to make modesty a subject of unquestioning obedience if you promise not to judge my choice to take the spirit of the law route for my family. We do what we think is right and let the consequences follow. Maybe my kids will turn into immodest, sexually provocative teenagers. Maybe your children will end up with severe body image issues and struggle with healthy sex lives when they are married. Most likely both will turn out just fine. I am happy to leave the judging to the Lord.
That is the problem with modesty in Mormon culture. It has turned into a modesty police state where we end up trying to enforce our standards and approaches on each others kids.
Modesty should be like Sabbath observance. Teach them correct priniciples and let us govern ourselves. Otherwise we are heading right down the path of 732 steps on the Sabbath.
Amen.
Kami – the point is we should never “just obey”. This means we are turning off our brains and not think about anything. Are you suggesting blind obedience?
Adam offered sacrifices without understanding why. Abraham was ready to sacrifice Isaac without understanding why. Given those examples, yes, I think sometimes you have to trust the faith you do have in the gospel, and trust that the Lord knows more than you, and yes, just obey. I have had specific instances where a principal or practice has been confirmed to me that it is truth, such as with tithing and visiting teaching. However, there are many times that I do things in the church simply because I know the Book of Mormon is true and that we are led by prophets, not because I have unshakeable faith in that one small doctrine (like modesty). I also believe that until you obey a law through faith, you won’t have a witness of validity. My testimony of the truth of tithing and visiting teaching came after I was already doing those things, like in this scripture.
Ether 12:6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
So if you were asked to do something by our leaders that you knew as morally wrong, like Abraham having to kill his son you would have no issues with that? Can our leaders do no wrong ever?
Or like practicing polygamy (á la Nauvoo)? This would be a better example for your question, I think, since Abraham wasn’t following a leader, he was asked by God, two very different things. And he alone in all the scriptures was ever put to such a test. So if I was asked by the prophet to say… start practicing polygamy again, I think I would have to do what other saints have done before me and pray and fast to receive a spiritual confirmation that the counsel was correct. And if I received an affirmative answer, then I would hope I have the spiritual fortitude to follow that counsel. Polygamy is not the *best* example I realize, because it is part of our doctrine already, but back when it was first introduced it is exactly what you describe of being “asked to do something by our leaders that you knew as morally wrong.”
As for your question, “Can our leaders do no wrong ever?” I think it’s pretty clear from church history and people I’ve known, that everyone has their agency, regardless of their position in the church. General conference addresses from apostles are edited occasionally. And all people are a product of their time. However I don’t believe the Lord would allow the prophet to do anything that would separate us from the Lord or hinder our exaltation. Because basically it boils down to either there is a prophet guided by revelation or there isn’t. This is the one and only true church or it isn’t. Without latter-day prophets our church can’t be possibly be true.
If you have received a confirmation of the principles of tithing and visiting teaching, then you are no longer “just obeying”. If a mother tries teaching her children modesty as the church has outlined it, and she notices a deterioration in her child’s confidence and/or attitude towards others… that would be the opposite of what Moroni was talking about, right? So, it would make no sense under those circumstances to keep “just obeying”.
For the record, I don’t think anyone her is arguing against the principle of modesty. Just the way it is approached and taught to children. When so many people who have tried living the hard lines drawn in For the Strength of the Youth have come away with less than ideal results, at what point is it okay to question it? “Just obeying” until you get the confirmation of the Spirit only works if there is eventually a confirmation of the Spirit…
I actually disagree with your statement that you don’t think anyone here is arguing against the principle of modesty. As I see it, Carrie is taking a straight forward principle and rationalizing it away, so that she feels comfortable dressing her children in whatever she wants. And I know I just sounded really mean and judgmental, when in honest truth, I don’t care if little girls come in sundresses to church without sleeves etc. I know a lot of people think that little kids don’t need the same standard. As I said in my first comment, I teach my kids young because I think it’s good for them to learn to obey young. Plus, what would then be the cut off for them to start obeying? When they’re 12? That seems so arbitrary to me. And what really bothers me the most about Carrie’s article is not that she’s suggesting a different standard for young kids, but that’s she’s suggesting it’s wrong for anyone to teach immodesty/modesty to kids, because of possible peer judging. I know kids can be hurtful and cruel to their peers, but if your child’s confidence is based on wearing sleeveless vs. sleeved dresses, I think there might be other issues besides modesty involved, such as a huge bullying problem or body image issues.
I honestly fail to see how “people who have tried living the hard lines drawn in For the Strength of the Youth have come away with less than ideal results.” What do you mean, less than ideal results? I’m not being sarcastic, I just don’t understand. What results are people expecting? To me, it’s just the way you dress, and it sometimes makes it harder to find clothes you like when shopping. End of story. I don’t expect any other results. So what do you mean?
Kami,
Carrie is not arguing against the principle of dressing modestly. She is presenting an argument about the pedagogy and the etymology of modesty.
In your argument of obedience, as you have presented, you have committed the classic logical fallacy of presenting a red-herring argument.
Michael,
Carrie’s main points as I understood were A:
“As we teach our children to focus on their clothing choices, we are also teaching them to focus on the clothing choices of their peers.”
B:
“When we think of modesty in it’s true manner- that it is a way to dress to prevent sexual attraction of others, then it seems absurd that we are teaching our children that other children dressed in a tank top are immodest and thus, dressing in a way to encourage sexual attraction of others.
And C:
“We need to take a step back and examine what we are really meaning to teach our children, which is probably that it’s important to keep our bodies covered…..I think that the use of modest/immodest terms while our children are young need to go. At the very least, let’s get rid of immodest. We need to stop drawing a line in the sand because what is immodest in one family, is not immodest in another.”
I think I addressed all these points in my first comment. A. I don’t think kids are overly critical from teaching about modesty, simply being in a peer group makes kids aware of clothing.
B. I don’t think modesty is about anything sexual.
C. I think we should follow the prophet and live the standards outlined in FTSOTY–as opposed to what Carrie says of living whatever standard your family sets.
Red herring or not, my point was that I disagree with Carrie’s arguments in their entirety and I outlined why.
Wonderfully said, Carrie. Thank you.
As I read this, I was focused on something not specifically stated. You refer to it as you spoke of children’s reactions to each other, but this is how the broader issue appeared in my mind: Once again, we as a religious culture are focusing on the outward self with the current modesty obsession. Once again, we find a way to categorize, label and judge character based upon what we see with our eyes. This is a long-time pattern with the LDS culture. Adherence to accepted practices such as non-smoking, non-drinking behaviors becomes the measure of righteousness. Modesty has been moved into that barrel. This obsession has exploded in the last two decades. While I was raising my kids, the message was present, but not prominent.
I realize part of the modesty push in the world -not just within the LDS community – is a result of what I agree are declining social standards for dress and behavior, so I can give a little slack to the zealots. But the overriding message of “Make your judgements and be judged based upon outward appearance” is the most bothersome part of the whole thing for me. It distracts us from the doctrine of Christ — Faith in Him, repentance, baptism, enlightenment and Loving One Another.
Great post! Thanks again.
Great comment!!
Modesty is about not calling unnecessary attention to yourself. Lets not fetishize modesty into something that is only about sex.
Wearing a practical bathing suit at the beach (comfortable and doesn’t tend to fall off, even if it is a bikini) is modest. Wearing a ski parka at a beach is immodest. (What is the parka-clad person trying to prove?) Don’t wear the tiniest one to show off or tweak your parents, wear one that fits, one that you like, one that makes you feel good.
Lets not call attention to ourselves by wearing extreme fashions in the name of modesty, then judging others for not doing what we think they should be doing.
Beautiful sentiment. This mirrors the world’s viewpoint of “It’s never too early to start teaching sex ed” and robbing our children of their innocence.
And it’s not just young children we’re hurting. I counselored for EFY and felt sad having to tell teenagers that their shirt was too tight or low or that the tank they wore under a lacy dress showed too much of their back. The poor girls were more paranoid about what they were wearing because of EFY’s absurdly strict rules, despite the fact that their fashion choices conformed to For the Strength of Youth. EFY and BYU claim garment level hemline quality, but in all honesty went well beyond that. Which was more detrimental to the kid’s ability to learn, an uncovered armpit, or the paranoia of knowing that someone is constantly scrutinizing your visible skin and clothing choices?
This was very interesting to read. I loved the different opinions.
Its interesting for a couple of reasons:
I am a salon owner/stylist. I hear everyday the insecurities/experiences people have. I speak to goups of wman young and old, lds faith and non-denominational about Image and where the root of confidence and divine worth comes. I am attending BYU and studying the behaviors (fascinating). I also have 4 children- 13-girl, 11-son, 9-girl, and crazy 2 yr old, so Ive learned a lot about teaching children to grow up with the right self image and really we are getting into the thick of it, but they hold on to what has been taught so far. Im am an excersize nut so I have all the workout clothes. But last of all, I have a husband that was exposed to some crazy porn while younger and has become an amazing man regardless and because of it. Not many are that lucky. He openly and honestly shares his battle and what it takes everyday to be stronger than the adversary. His testimony of the savior is incredible and if everyone had the same relationship with the savior as Ive seen him have, there would be no judgements passed, only love and learning. there would be no insecurities, satans #1 tool, only brightness and balanced confidence in being a son/daughter of God.
So I cant help but be ammused and interested in this modesty feed.
#1 Kami – Way to be strong!!! Sheri Dew says 2 things that came to mind while reading all these comments:
“Its not up to us woman to be lead by the women of the world but to lead the women of the world” you held strong and Im sure you are raising your daughters the same way.
Does the media not play a big role in all of this? The media feeds negativity and sexuality to the mind more than anything. satan is working very smart, So I feel what is seen and heard through the media says more to our sons and daughters than anything. I can see a lot of you agree that what is taught in the home is incredibly important.
The Public affairs of the church is amazing. They have some of the best qualified people in there because they need the best in there. Its a constant daily battle. Especially with the media. So, do the leaders of the church need to be specific, you bet.
The #2 thing sheri dew said is “I would bet that when we stand before our Heavenly Father and Savior, the judgemnet will be a peice of cake compared to what we put each other through down here.”
Yes people judge. Its none of your business what other people are thinking. If they say something, obviously they have internal struggles with themselves, you choose what to do with that information. teaching your childrent that will help them throughout their whole life because comments will be made wherever you go. you cant control that. Im guessing all of the comments made are from people in Utah. I live in Utah and it is interesting how it can be judgemental place but you see and hear what you want and take offense to what you want. I personally dont think about what someone thinks when it comes to what im wearing, unless it is something that is causing the wrong reaction in a man/boy. And talking with my husband and male clients, it can be struggle no matter how you were brought up or what youve been exposed to.
Now for those that have issues with bikinis, look up ‘the history of the bikini’ on youtube. there is a little more physiology that goes into it than you realize. it is what it is. our society has evolved for good and for bad. we all know that, again, we see the media.
The point Im trying to make is this: With more personal prayer, a stronger relationship with the Savior, more trust with those that that Heavenly father has chosen to lead, we all can have a more eternal view on things. As a parent Ive learned that my example says more that my words (good or bad), and they really do (so far) govern themselves with the things we teach in our home. My girls have chosen modesty and Ive not pressed the issue. We do talk all the time on acceptance of others even with different opinions.
“the whole idea of modesty IS to dress in a way to prevent sexual attraction” – NOPE. Absolutely NOT. Sexual attraction is part of the plan of God, without sexual attraction men and women will not have desire to marry.
it’s appalling that you would quote church leaders and twist them to your own skewed definition of what is right or wrong. there is ONLY one gospel standard, and that standard is set by the Lord, through his church. if your family has a different standard then it is not living the Lord’s standards, you are living your own. and there is such a thing as MODEST and IMMODEST because there is such a thing as RIGHT and WRONG.