My oldest child turns 8 in December. I know what this means for my cultural traditions. He has been getting invited to baptisms all year long as the rest of his primary class moves through this coming-of-age hallmark. But I can’t do it. I can’t allow it.
Let me be clear about this. I felt this way long before November 5, 2015 (stayed tuned, though, because now it has a role). I’m not using my children as pawns in a political protest. What I honestly believe is that 8 years of age is far too young to ask a person to make a commitment of that magnitude. You have to really be stretching everything we know about child psychology and cognitive ability to claim otherwise. If we relied on Erikson’s stages of development, we’d wait until at least the teenage years, if not adulthood. I think Piaget would have us wait until they are at least 11. Kohlberg would surely suggest we can’t really understand the implications of the baptismal covenant until well into adulthood. And Fowler, who spoke specifically about stages of faith, says that it is in adulthood that we can start to parse our beliefs based on our own moral compass. By all accounts, a child at the age of 8 is doing what their culture, society, and institutions expect of them. They are not making decisions of belief because they are simply too young to be cognitively capable. (Please don’t send me 100 messages about how this isn’t true because it wasn’t true for your child. My automatic response will be to assure that your child is a special snowflake but not the standard.)
I had no idea what I was really doing at the age of 8. I don’t even remember my baptism. And I was certainly well into adulthood before I was able to separate my own beliefs from that of the culture I grew up in. I’m not doing that to my children. Don’t get me wrong. I will be raising them in my faith. I will teach them what I believe and I will guide them with the gospel principles that I hold dear. But I will not manipulate my children into making a decision about what they believe long before they are capable of understanding it.
And you can’t talk me out of it. This is where November 5, 2015, does come into play. Because maybe before that day you could have said my child needs this ordinance as a boon throughout the teenage years. You could’ve argued that the gift of the Holy Ghost is necessary for this difficult period of change and growth. You could’ve told me I was doing a disservice to my children by keeping them from those blessings. But now? Now you can’t tell me all of that and also support that policy. You can’t tell me that *my* children will be damaged by a lack of those blessing and then turn around and say there is no harm in making the children of same-sex couples wait for them. If *they* are not being denied blessings, then my children aren’t either. If you want to convince me that my children must be baptized ASAP, then you must admit that the Exclusion Policy is a punishment for those children. And then you have to explain to me a God that punishes children for the sins* of their parents.
In the meantime, I’ll just assume we’re all fine with my decision then.
*I don’t believe there is any sin involved in the scenario I’m referencing. But you get my point.
Leah Marie
Leah Marie earned a BA in Political Science, and a Masters in Public Administration. She is currently working towards her PhD in Public Policy. She is wife to an English professor, and mother to 3 beautiful boys.
All posts by Leah Marie
While I believe your analysis is correct, I do wonder how your soon-to-be 8 year old feels about it. If he wants to be baptized at age 8 and that is too young to make an effective and binding lifetime covenant, then the covenant (analogizing to Anglo-American law) would not be binding upon him unless and until he is old enough and ratifies it. Assuming he wanted to be baptized at 8, what would he and his parents think of that approach? Should he be forbidden to do it?
I don’t know. As a parent, there are lots of things that my children have expressed interest in doing that I veto. It is my responsibility to guide them through this stuff, and I don’t think it is irresponsible as a parent to tell my child they are not ready for something when they are not ready for something. Indeed, I would say it is irresponsible to let them do something when they cannot understand the ramifications. “But I want it,” has never garnered surrender from me in the past.
As for the (soon to be) 8-year-old in question here, he has expressed no interest or desire.
I agree with you and I admired your courage to follow your conviction not traditions that are not your convictions. Jesus Christ git baptize when He was in his 30s, I am a concert to LDS Church from the Catholic and I was never ok that LDS Church baptize a children at the age of 8. It is for me the same that the Catholics baptize children when they born. I was baptize when I was 18 in Spain and it took me a lot of prayer and seeking for a testimony. I do not think all 8 year old kids are mature enough to understand this commitment. Good for you. I think we need to start changing those traditions and come to the Truth. I believe that D&C 112:24-28 is coming to its fulfilment of the dispensation of the times when the Lord is going to start cleaning first the iniquity and confusion from inside of His Church
See this analysis to see how it is, in fact, binding.
https://youtu.be/RlbUw5hjeKI
For real? YOU are the parent! What if your 8 year old wants to smoke pot? where do YOU start teaching not to give into peer pressure? As young as possible.
As someone deeply hurt and confused by the exclusion policy I appreciate your stance. As someone who has studied child devlopment I applaud it.
Exactly. Baptism should be available to anyone informed and mature enough to choose it for themselves, regardless. When I asked my almost-8-year-old why she wanted to get baptized, her answer was “because I want to get dunked under water!” and “because I want to have a big baptism birthday party like all my friends.” So I told her we would spend some more time discussing what baptism actually means, and that she can get baptized when she wants it for reasons related to the actual ordinance of baptism. I’m already getting a lot of heat from ward leadership, including a lecture from the Primary President suggesting that she knows better than I do how ready my daughter actually is. My parents delayed my baptism until I chose it for myself at age 11, and I feel like that was a perfect time.
Wow. We are facing a similar decision this coming December. My worries have been less about the developmental preparedness than about family dynamics. I figured baptism is a starting of a pattern more than anything else, so I figured we would do what our son wants and ward leaders allow, but this makes me less worried about talking about it with ward leaders.
Leah, I agree completely with your stance. I would even go so far as to say that even if a child wants to be baptized at 8 years old, he or she should not be allowed. I cite to Moroni 8 for support on this matter, as well as the scientific studies of juvenile brain development that you cite to. Little children cannot sin, and baptism is for the remission of sins. God wants baptizees to appreciate the gravity of baptism, and just because a child thinks he or she does appreciate it, doesn’t make them right. Prepubescent children also want to drive real cars, and swordfight, and sometimes, smoke cigarettes and drink If baptizing 8-year-old were desirable, Jesus would have taught it, and wouldn’t have allowed Mormon in the Book of Mormon to emphatically teach otherwise. In other words, the D&C teachings on this matter in 68: 25, if they’re read to endorse actually baptizing 8-year olds, as opposed to preparing them for its eventuality, would not only contradict prior teachings, but constitute a fake revelation, like several others in that book seem to be. There, I said it, and it felt as good as it must have felt for you to say what you said.
Leah, I really appreciate this post. My son is 10 y/o and was just baptized a few months back by his own choice. I have not been active for a long time but have raised him with the Mormon belief system and when he started asking about being baptized it was only because he had seen someone else get baptized so I didn’t think that was a good reason either. He spent a year and a half taking the missionary discussions and studying on his own (we studied the gospel essentials manual together) and then we talked about it and I consented and supported him being baptized. I had a similar experience as shared in other comments where ward members thought they knew better than my son that I did and I almost yanked my consent altogether because of that. After the exclusion policy came out, I queried the bishop and the missionaries about it as well and how the church at any time could pick out the situation of the month and exclude children, as in the case of my being an unmarried single mom. Good for you and every other parent who is following the dictates of their own conscience and not giving in to cultural and social pressure to do what everyone else is doing.
The practice of children being baptized at age eight was only to be practiced in stakes of Zion where children would grow up without sin unto salvation.
Because Zion was not established, there is no stakes of Zion and children should not be baptized at age eight.
Forget the LDS church BS. Kids being baptized sure is cute though. It doesn’t even matter… The church does not have the authority to perform saving ordinances. When true prophets come to the earth we will all need to be baptized again into the true new and everlasting covenant.
-g.azelem
A Mormon using logic? That’s the road to apostasy, don’t ya know. Kudos though for doing the right thing for your child. I wish more were like you.
Interesting that you would announce such a personal decision for you and your family regarding your religion in a public forum. Should we assume that after fasting and prayer you received revelation from God regarding such an important decision and that you are to share it with the world? Do tell.
Homeboy. This is a blog post. If you don’t care about the decision I am making here, *don’t read the post.*
If the kid still believes in Santa Claus, if they aren’t allowed to decide their own bedtime, if they have to eat all of their dinner before dessert, if they have to do homework before play then how is being baptized in any way an informed decision? Do they believe in fairies they same way they believe in the church? How about going over the recently released church essays with them, in terms they can understand and without coercion (we just don’t know why they were racist/polygamy before revelation and hiding it/no historical evidence of bom/etc despite us having prophets who can provide answers….) and then asking if they want to get baptised?
When I was 8 I refused to be baptized because I knew it meant more than I understood. At 16 I still refused even though I was submerged in the faith and beliefs of the church. I think the importance of baptism is that it is a conscious choice. Even in the church we fall victims of peer pressure and I agree that children aren’t capable of understanding the importance of the ritual. I appreciate this approach to the topic.
My son is 7 and this post speaks directly to a lot of my own concerns. He’s not particularly interested in church at all, and we don’t go regularly (1-2x a month). My husband and I have already determined that it’s his decision. My mom, who is super gung-ho TBM and is kinda convinced I’m an apostate, has already started dropping passive-aggressive hints about him getting baptized. The whole situation is stupid.
So glad that thanks to your education and your superior reasoning, you know better than dumb old Jesus about the age at which a person is capable of being accountable. Not perfect, just accountable and capable of participating in the repentance process.
The pride here is simply staggering.
Uncurly, have you considered the possibility that Jesus DIDN’T say that children are to be baptized at the age of 8? The people who think an 8-year-old child is too young to be baptized HAVE considered this possibility. D&C 68:27 seemed not only contraintuitive on its face, but completely contradicts other teachings by Jesus on the same subject.
This possibility is bolstered by these facts: Moroni 8 teaches that baptizing little children is a solemn mockery before God, and 8-year-olds are little children; Jesus is never mentioned as having baptized nor endorsed the baptism of a little child, though his teachings on baptism are extensive, as are his teachings about little children; and, numerous other sections of the D&C are clearly not of God. See D&C sections 5,27, 111, 116, 117, and 132 for example. But if you consider it impossible that Joseph Smith could ever have touted a non-revelation as a revelation from God, you will find yourself frequently defending tortured logic.
Yesterday we reviewed Ch. 15 from the President Hunter manual. The lesson opens with some personal history about President Hunter and his non-member father who also thought 8 was too young and refused to allow President Hunter to be baptized until after he turned 12. Thus, he was not allowed to pass the sacrament for awhile.
The vignette went on to share how self conscious President Hunter felt when he could not pass the sacrament with his friends and the anxiety that caused him. I suppose it turned out okay for him and to quote Elder Christoferson “nothing was lost to him in the end” by having to wait and endure the humiliation.
We wouldn’t want to repeat that mistake and inflict that on a class of innocent 12 year old boys whose only misfortune was that God-or someone-directed them to gay parents who had the temerity to marry. Oh wait . . . .
Good for you!
Thank you. You nailed it on the head. I served a mission. I taught investigators that there was no justifiable reason to delay one’s baptism. That the blessings of the Holy Ghost would serve as a guide in their lives when all else seemed to fail. Nov 5th happened and suddenly people are telling me that I shouldn’t be concerned because these children, in circumstances that they have no control over, will just get baptized later. “And all will be as it should be.” However I can’t help but feel that children in circumstances that they don’t control would seem to be the best possible candidate for needing the blessings of the Spirit. Not only that but a child following the gospel should be a strong example to others that the blessings of Christ are real and can lead to awaking the seeds of faith in others in the family to any kind of degree. ‘Exclusion’ does not feel right to me, and makes our choice to allow our son to get baptized right away, so much more complex. I have always felt 8 was too young. Nov 5th justify’s delaying his decision until he’s more aware of it’s meaning. I feel that all sins being equal (which apparently starting a family as a homosexual is somehow worse to some than things like misuse of the Priesthood, cheating on a spouse, etc) then by that metric, living in a home with those who live in sin (in my case; skipping church, watching inappropriate media, breaking the sabbath…) may cause the child to lose their pre-adult testimony, then I have lots of work to do before those standards are met. I am in no way worthy enough yet to be a spiritual beacon to my child… again, sins being equal. I have faith these concerns will one day be resolved. I’m comfortable with having my issues, my desire to better understand, and my commitment to not making it a source of contention to those who have already found their own answers. Joseph Smith believed in the Church’s members, being intelligent, thoughtful and independent. We’re all tasked with seeking out truths. If I receive an answer to my own issues I’ll let you know. Just know you’re not alone in your concerns. Thanks
I couldn’t thank you enough for your post. I have been receiving countless emails, text messages, and questioning from the bishop, secretary, primary president, neighbors asking why my son isn’t getting baptized next month. I went online trying to find out if anybody else out there felt the same way I do and I found your words explain exactly how I fee. Thank you for standing up!!!
That was hilarious. My dad kinda had the same idea, I was baptized when I was 9, not 8. He said that I was not emotionally ready. He did the same to my sister, who was baptized when she was 16. Many people are baptized without knowing what they are getting themselves into. The numbers of Mormons are completely exaggerated at this point, as many on the church roster do not consider themselves Mormon.
The whole baptize ’em when they are 8, was supposed to be the age of accountability, where children have been nurtured enough to know what they are getting themselves into. It was created at a time where parenting was taken more seriously in regards to how to behave. In today’s society, we have been lax on socializing children correctly that they have fallen behind on basic morality. This is due to parents’ limit on nurturing their children because parents are working more. Women are now working, men are working more hours, children are dumped on others to socialize them, and these children are socialized with other children who haven’t been nurtured properly either, combined with the fact that society ceases to make consequences to children because they don’t know better, it stunted the emotional and psychological growth. 8 year olds back in the 1890s are at least as responsible as 18 year olds today. So, being baptized at 8 yet, is not feasible anymore.
God says Repent and be Baptized. No where in scriptures are children baptized. No one also knows the age of the households who were baptized they use those scriptures to baptize infants and children. Yeshua was baptized when he was an adult. Read that carefully God says this is my son listen to him. Yeshua set an example look at the age he was baptized.
Remember there is only one baptism and repentance through Yeshua. Careful, this is not your choice for your child but the individual when they come of age to repent of there sins and to follow Christ.
My daughter was so excited to be baptized at age 8. She is sensitive and spiritual. She had a strong testimony and had read the book of mormon. The whole year before her baptism when we said ” does anyone have any announcements?” In family home evening she would announce how excited she was to get baptized. She was a ready as an 8 year old gets. Four years later when puberty hit she realized she is gay. She is angry at the church for many reasons. She still comes to fhe, prayers (her choice) and church because she likes being with us, but will not attend on her own ever again. I feel very guilty for letting her get baptized. She didn’t have all the information she needed to make that choice.
I got baptized when I was 8 years old, not necessarily because I wanted to, or held particularly firm belief in the Church, but because that was what was expected of me, and because all of my friends had been baptized.
As an adult, I ended up leaving the Church, and I was just thinking recently about how 8 is way too young to be making such a decision. If you aren’t old enough to enter legally binding agreements until you’re 18, I don’t think you’re old enough to enter a spiritually binding covenant at 8. I’m glad you recognize this for your child.