Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | RSS
In part 2 Brian Kissell interviews Kirk Caudle about the recent news that he has resigned his membership from the church.
Kirk received his MA in Interdisciplinary Studies (Spiritual Traditions and Ethics) from Marylhurst University, a small Roman Catholic liberal arts school founded by the Sisters of the Holy Names of Jesus and Mary. He additionally holds a BA degree from Cascade College, a satellite campus of Oklahoma Christian University, in Interdisciplinary Studies (Bible and History). Kirk is active in interfaith dialogue and regularly presents papers at academic conferences on Mormonism and other aspects of Religion and Philosophy. His professional teaching experience includes three years as a guest New Testament instructor at the Portland LDS Institute of Religion and religion instructor for Brigham Young University-Idaho.
Kirk wrote his Master’s thesis on, “Joseph Smith and the Eternal Possibilities of the Immortal Soul in Western Philosophical and Theological Thought.” He is an active member of multiple scholarly organizations including the Mormon Scholars in the Humanities, the Society for Mormon Philosophy and Theology, and the American Academy of Religion (AAR). As of 2012, he and Dr. Susanna Morrill, associate professor of Religious Studies at Lewis and Clark College, have co-chaired the Mormon Studies session of the Pacific Northwest Region of the AAR. Kirk resides in Portland, OR with his 4 children and his wife of 14 years.
Thank you so much for listening.
Brian Kissell
Brian Kissell has a deep love for Mormon podcasts, as they have been an extremely influential tool for him as he has traveled on this wonderful faith journey within the Mormon World. He believes in big tent Mormonism, and is interested in recognizing better ways to value and increase diversity, while simultaneously increasing our ability as a culture for differing individuals to talk to each other in more productive and healthy ways. Brian is also the host of a few other podcasts. One of these is a short faithful devotional podcast centered around Mormon quotes which can be found at Mormonquotes.wordpress.com. Another is a psychology podcast which can be found at Methodologyforpsychology.org.
All posts by Brian Kissell
That’s a very powerful story. Thank you for documenting and sharing your experience here. Your perspective on this is different from mine, so I appreciate how you’ve affected me.
This is one of the best interviews I have heard in a long time , I don't like the idea of people leaving the church but he couldn't say it any better, he didn't longer believe in some big aspects of mormonism and he made his choice.
I like his final thoughts , he is honest , he is not trying to get page views, get fame among mormons with questions or donations, he is not trying to secure his career.
Brother Kirk is a good man. His honesty is refreshing. I didn’t go to BYU and this makes me so happy that I didn’t. Even though I’m a completely active and faithful member, my kids will never go to BYU. Or I should say, I will do my best to stir them towards other schools, real schools. My money will never go to BYU, that’s for sure. What a joke. No wonder BYU has such a crappy reputation in academic circles. And don’t tell me this insanity only influences the religion department. Look at the nutty professors that claimed they had discovered Cold Fusion. Look at the nutty 911 truth professor, I think his name was Jones? The church mindset is such that it simply injects bias into everything, which is wholly inappropriate for academics. This is a program that results in a DEGREE. Asinine.
Kirk is not a good man. I was in his religion class and a lot of things went on in that class that he created that a good man would not do besides that fact that he tried to adversely affect peoples testimonies with his anti Mormon teachings.
Lol….anti mormon teachings….you mean speaking honestly about mormon doctrines and history? Maybe the church can learn something from him and actually tell the truth….that would be refreshing
With all due respect, I took multiple classes from Brother Caudle and he was the best teacher I have ever had at any level. I am active, LDS, married in the temple, and I never EVER heard him say anything even close to anti Mormon. Anything I ever heard about him from other students was very positive too. If you really did take one of his classes then I must question your willingness to have an open mind because I never heard a bad thing about him personally until I read your comment.
I was both shocked and saddened by his departure. This is a loss for the church and a huge black eye for BYU-I. I wish him well.
I absolutely agree.
I am not good on the computer, it took me a while to find it again. Okay, yes I took his class. On a PODCAST HE DID TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE TRANSFIGURATION of Brigham Young was not historically true. But contrary to what he said in your interview that is not what I brought up. I brought up his teaching that Emma caught Joseph having sex with their housekeeper out in the barn. When I questioned him about that he twisted my words, which is fine, but what really got to me was that he is greatly disappointed in me that I do not accept that idea and that I need to fast and pray about whether or not Joseph was caught by Emma having sex in the barn with their housekeeper. Weather or not this is true this is not something you teach in a church religion class and I am certainly not going to pray to receive a testimony of it. I did ask him to provide me with his references on that and he refused to respond. I did finally find it on an anti-Mormon web sight. I do not learn about the gospel on those sights, but I guess he does. The fact that he decided to leave the church should speak for itself. I do not sympathize with an apostate. Also he mentioned I was the only one that ever complained about his podcast. He is sadly mistaken. I know several. I did not ask the pathway missionaries weather or not they agreed with me as he falsely stated. What did happen was that the pathway missionary heard us talking about it and I was asked if I was going to call B.Y.U.I. and take care of it because if I didn’t he was going to. He was not honest about many things but I am not a fast typer nor have time to go into it all.I am sure Brother Caudle has some good qualities and hope someday he will be able to humble himself and come back to Christ. In the mean time I will pray that this may happen.
I am not good on the computer, it took me a while to find it again. Okay, yes I took his class. On a PODCAST HE DID TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE TRANSFIGURATION of Brigham Young was not historically true. But contrary to what he said in your interview that is not what I brought up. I brought up his teaching that Emma caught Joseph having sex with their housekeeper out in the barn. When I questioned him about that he twisted my words, which is fine, but what really got to me was that he is greatly disappointed in me that I do not accept that idea and that I need to fast and pray about whether or not Joseph was caught by Emma having sex in the barn with their housekeeper. Weather or not this is true this is not something you teach in a church religion class and I am certainly not going to pray to receive a testimony of it. I did ask him to provide me with his references on that and he refused to respond. I did finally find it on an anti-Mormon web sight. I do not learn about the gospel on those sights, but I guess he does. The fact that he decided to leave the church should speak for itself. I do not sympathize with an apostate. Also he mentioned I was the only one that ever complained about his podcast. He is sadly mistaken. I know several. I did not ask the pathway missionaries weather or not they agreed with me as he falsely stated. What did happen was that the pathway missionary heard us talking about it and I was asked if I was going to call B.Y.U.I. and take care of it because if I didn’t he was going to. He was not honest about many things but I am not a fast typer nor have time to go into it all.I am sure Brother Caudle has some good qualities and hope someday he will be able to humble himself and come back to Christ. In the mean time I will pray that this may happen.
Dear Brian, I have also been sealed in the temple after having served a mission. Brother Caudle was actually my third religion instructor as I was finishing up the Pathway program. So by this time I had an excellent attitude. I think one of the thingfs that got us off on the wrong foot was something that happened at the beginning of his class. I saw on the discussion board how a student went on and was comparing the general authorities with rock stars. I respectfully disagreed with that and mentioned that when your in the presence of rock stars there is screaming and shouting and I have also heard of pot smoking. On the contrary when in the presence of general authorities there is a quiet respectful reverence. Unbelievably he totally disagreed with me on the board and sided with this other student. When thinking about that and his later comments that he believes in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon but not the living prophets and apostles of today, everything started making sense. At this point he was already on his way out. How could he be teaching a church religopn class with that kind of attitude.
“and i have also heard of pot smoking” lol. what is this…third grade? seriously. i bet there could be drinking alcohol involved as well…dont forget that one.
After having heard the interview my only desire of ever having entered this discussion board was to try to set the record straight. Having tried to do that I am now signing off. I have respectfully appreciated your comments but we must remember that although Brother Caudle was obviously once an outstanding member of the church and a great instructor that unfortunately is no longer the case as he has chosen to apostatize. I wish each of you a wonderful life.
Kim, I’m confused…you ask how could he be teaching a church religion class with that kind of attitude. Let me ask you…how did Joseph smith actually lead the church when he was marrying other men’s wives and having sex with women that weren’t his wife? How did Brigham young lead the church as he was teaching folk doctrines of blood atonement, taking care of a harem of women, denying blacks the priesthood,, etc. We’ll use the same logic that the church uses….just like they were fallible, so is Kirk. You seem to have the perception that anyone that teaches must be perfectly in line with your brand of mormonism.
There is a fine line between being a defender of the faith and being a jackass. Someone on this thread falls into the second group.
With all due respect
Kirk was the one who came out anf publically said he does not believe in any if the prophets or apostles from Brigham Young to current day. He has declared his apostacy.
We are asked in temple reccommend interviews if we sympathize with apostates. Each one of you who holds a reccomend and is condemning me for speaking out should probably take a good look at yourself inward. I am not going to judge you, but ask yourself, are you sympathizing here and if so is it time for you to give back your reccomend. Only tou can answer that.
I have been talked to rudely on this podcast. Do you think I attended on line classes as a young adult. I am in my 70’s and personally I would not be disrespectful to my elders as many of you have been. So it was something I was taught growing up.