Suggestion Box: The LDS Garment Part 2
In a previous post regarding the LDS garment, we had a lot of positive affirmation that we weren’t the only ones who recognized various issues with the garment. In fact, it is one of our most viewed blog posts to date. In the first post I merely outlined some of the problems of the garment without giving any solutions. I did this because I didn’t want to blur the argument that problems do exist with an argument about change. This post, however, will deal with solutions. If there is a problem, shouldn’t we look to find solutions? Is the LDS Church even looking for suggestions? Yes, it is. Every distribution center has a suggestion box just for the garment. So, if you come across a solution in this post that would make your garment-wearing experience better (and you live near a distribution center), we invite you to put it in a suggestion box!
First and foremost, I would state the purpose of the garment is NOT TO REGULATE MODESTY! This idea needs to be thrown out the window. To regulate a behavior is to take away free agency and this can be problematic in our Mormon theology.
“Wherefore, men (and women) are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man (and woman). And they are free to choose…” (2 Nephi 2:27)
“And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves…” (Moses 6:56)
“…teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.” (Joseph Smith)
“…for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free.” (Helaman 14:30)
How do those scriptures align with regulating someone to dress modestly? Regulation goes against everything we believe in all the way back to the beginnings (choice in the premortal world – choosing a plan that would allow free agency, the choice made by Eve in the garden, etc.). Some would argue that there is in fact a choice, but that the choice is whether or not to attend the temple (by choosing to wear garments or not). That may be true, but at the same time, choosing to wear the garments so you can be temple-worthy completely takes away your choices regarding modesty. I can’t think of another instruction/promise/covenant/commandment that eliminates our choice. Is there a lock on your tv remote that only allows you to watch BYUtv on Sunday? A person covenants to keep the law of chastity in the temple, but no one is wearing a chastity belt to enforce this covenant. Garments cannot be about modesty. If they were about modesty, then tall women have the advantage over short women because they can (heaven forbid) show more leg. If that idea is hanging around, we need to get rid of it!
Let’s talk about how to improve the garments. Here are our goals: less exposure, better comfort, and better fit. We will state the problems or concerns with the garments from our last post and the solution(s) just below.
Note: I want everyone to know that you can go to a distribution center and get measured/fitted for your garments. While they still follow strict alteration allowances (perhaps depending on the person doing the alterations), I believe this needs to be advertised more! I had no idea you could do this until I posted the last blog.
Women
Problem: Short/petite women, due to the length of their garments, have to wear longer shorts (or can’t wear shorts at all) than taller women.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom altogether.
Problem: While wearing a shirt that has a wider neckline, the garment is often exposed near the collarbone.
Solution: Replace the lace edges on the top with a plain, flat binding. Reduce the shoulder width of the top.
Problem: Petite women can’t wear cap sleeves without exposure of the garment because it is wide and slips down on the arm.
Solution: Remove the sleeve on the top and reduce the shoulder width.
Problem: Any time a woman bends down, sits, or squats, the top waistband of the garment – if not more – is exposed.
Solution: Provide an option for a “low-rise” waist for bottoms.
Problem: Any time a woman reaches for something high her garment is exposed.
Solution: Make the garment fabric look like any other undershirt so if it is exposed it doesn’t look like anything unique.
Problem: Pregnant women whose shirts are more fitting around the middle expose the navel marking in the garment.
Solution: Move the marking to a more discreet location on the top – maybe on the side or closer to the hem or even on the waistband of the bottom garment (or silkscreen!).
Problem: Bigger women will have a bigger waist, and therefore a longer garment length.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom.
Problem: Any form-fitting shirt will reveal the back embroidery of the garment through the shirt.
Solution: Replace the lace edges with a plain, flat binding.
Problem: Any form-fitting pants will reveal the embroidery of the hemline of the garment (or just the hemline if there is no embroidery).
Solution: Create a shorter bottom.
Problem: Any white shirt will reveal the embroidery around the neck and back.
Solution: Replace the lace edges with a plain, flat binding.
Problem: The garment waistband is so skinny it digs into your skin.
Solution: Create a wider non-band for the band (examples pictured below).
Problem: When a woman wears a knee-length skirt that is not tight fitting, she will have garment exposure when she walks.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom.
Problem: Some tops have bigger armscye (arm hole) causing exposure of the garment.
Solution: Make the garment fabric look like any other undershirt so if it is exposed it doesn’t look like anything unique.
Problem: The garment waist is so uncomfortably high it has to be pushed and bunched down (or pulled up to the armpits).
Solution: Provide an option for a “low-rise” waist.
Men
Problem: Garment bottoms will crawl up so you have to pull them down almost every time you sit down.
Solution: Hanes Premium Boxer Briefs have been the only ones that don’t do this to me – replicate this design.
Problem: The garment crawling up can make things uncomfy around the wedding tackle area.
Solution: Hanes Premium Boxer Briefs have been the only ones that don’t do this to me – replicate this design.
Problem: In wearing a white dress shirt, you can see the markings through the shirt.
Solution: Move the markings on the top to a more discreet location, perhaps on the sides of the garment. You could also silkscreen the markings on which would altogether eliminate the bumps that stand out through the shirt.
Problem: If you are wearing a thin shirt like a golf shirt, you can see the markings through the shirt.
Solution: Move the markings on the top to a more discreet location, perhaps on the sides of the garment. You could also silkscreen the markings on which would altogether eliminate the bumps that stand out through the shirt.
Problem: Short men are left to wear longer shorts or their garments will be exposed at the bottom.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom.
Problem: Bigger men will have a bigger waist and therefore a longer length in the garment, usually resulting in exposure.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom.
Problem: The garment bottom hemline appears when wearing most pants, especially when sitting with suit pants.
Solution: Create a shorter bottom which would put the hemline higher on the thigh where the pants are more loose.
Problem: Sometimes the sleeve can be exposed when wearing a short sleeve.
Solution: Create a sleeveless top option (see pictures below).
The eternal smile
Problem: The “eternal smile” top is too low and too thick making it very noticeable.
Solution: Create different variations of a V-neck and a smaller, more discreet band (see pictures below).
Problem: Wearing two tops can sometimes make the fit very tight and uncomfortable around the armpits.
Solution: Create a sleeveless top option.
Problem: The crew neck is too high. I had a mission companion whose crew neck still showed even when he was wearing a tie!
Solution: Create different variations of a V-neck or just copy what Hanes, American Apparel, or Calvin Klein has done with their crew necks.
Problem: The crew neck collar is too wide.
Solution: Copy designs from Hanes, American Apparel, or Calvin Klein (see pictures below).
Problem: The crew neck is poor quality and will look like bacon after a couple of washings.
Solution: Copy designs from Hanes, American Apparel, or Calvin Klein (see pictures below).
Problem: Material is poor quality and will turn grey and become thin before the garment is even worn out.
Solution: Copy Hanes, American Apparel, or Calvin Klein fabric (see pictures below).
Cultural issues
Problem: In Africa, some cultures don’t wear underwear under their dresses for sanitary reasons.
Solution: Create a short slip that mimics the dresses they wear with the markings.
Problem: In Africa, some cultures don’t have toilets and garments becomes an issue when squatting.
Solution: Create a short slip that mimics the dresses they wear with the markings.
ILLUSTRATED SOLUTIONS:
Here are different tops listed in this order from top to bottom: LDS garment, Hanes, American Apparel, Calvin Klein
Notice the different neck bands in the image above. The LDS garment is the widest and is wrinkled giving it a “bacon” look. The narrower, better quality necks lay flat. Also, the Calvin Klein top is tagless, making it more comfortable.
Featured from top to bottom: LDS garment, American Apparel, Mossimo (Target)
For those who wear the scoop-neck garment top, a V-neck would be the most practical alternative. The American Apparel and Mossimo examples shown above are much thinner than the scoop-neck garment top. Also, these two V-necks have different depths, allowing for more flexibility.
Sleeveless top for men
To avoid bunching in the armpit, a sleeveless top would be a good option. It would also limit exposure of the garment.
From top to bottom: LDS garment, Hanes Premium Boxer Brief
Notice the quality of the waistband in the LDS garment compared to the Hanes bottom. The length of a boxer brief would also make the hemline more discreet. And the tagless feature of the Hanes bottom is more comfortable.
Women’s bottoms listed from top to bottom: Calvin Klein and Barely There
These waistbands are made from the same material as the rest of the underwear. Even though the Calvin Klein bottoms have a more narrow waistband, it does not dig into the skin like the LDS garment does. The Barely There bottom features a wider, more comfortable waistband. Both would be great alternatives. Also, notice the leg of the Calvin Klein bottom – this lays flat and is not as noticeable as the LDS garment.
Different options for the women’s top
Conclusion:
Is Ann Romney wearing her garments on the Jay Leno Show? Can you tell? How about this – stop looking! It is none of your business!
So the general complaints about the LDS garments for both men and women are that they do not fit correctly, they are not comfortable, they are made from low-quality fabric, and they are not attractive. Improvements made to address these issues would most certainly cost the LDS Church more money and would therefore raise the cost of the garments. This would be a big issue because the Church already subsidizes some of the cost of the garments to keep the price lower for those who do purchase and wear them. Additionally, the Church is in a little bit of a predicament with cost of production. They have to produce a lot of garments and keep the prices really low so that every member can afford them. When the focus is on creating a budget item of clothing, the quality will be lacking. You get what you pay for.
With a budget in mind, it would be very difficult to initiate all, or perhaps any, of the aforementioned options and improvements. I also think there would always be poor fittings due to the the wide variety of body types and personal preferences regarding fit and fabric. Maybe it is time to turn back the clock to when members used to buy their garments from retailers like Sears and put in the marks themselves. There are hundreds of different underwear companies that make it their business to find the best fit for all types of bodies – different cuts and styles – all to ensure that their customers are happy. I personally don’t think the Church could ever compete with that. Maybe each ward or branch could have a lender sewing machine for those that don’t have one so members could put in the marks into their own underwear (“garments”). Maybe they could drop off their underwear at a distribution center and have them marked there for a certain price. Another option would be to have stations at the distribution center where you could sew in the marks yourself or have a silkscreen printing option.
Old LDS Garment Advertisement
In my opinion, choosing your own underwear solves ALL the issues. The church would save a bunch of money and man power that could be well spent in other places. If members picked their own underwear, would you be able to tell if someone was a Mormon or not? Would you be able to tell if a Mormon has gone to the temple? No and no! How great would that be? Members could choose whatever underwear fit their body the best and put the marks on themselves. What makes a garment a garment? The markings. What helps you remember the promises you made? The markings.
*A special thanks to Martine for helping me with this post!
Paul Barker
Born and raised in Northern California, Paul received his education at Ricks College and BYU with a BA in Spanish, minor in PE Coaching. Paul served his LDS mission during the years 94-96 in Rosario, Argentina. He now runs his own businesses from home in Utah County. He's married and has 4 boys. He is currently the ward cub master.
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Loved this! At the beginning I was thinking to myself why not screen print markings on…then I got to the men’s issues and you mentioned screen print. I would wear garments again if the markings were gone or screen printed on the insides and the tops looked and felt like a shade shirt or something similar. I like the boyz fit underwear for women…I know some would not agree with me. No riding up and no hem lines…and they have a comfort band for the waist.
I for the last year or so have lost weight and feel better about myself by wearing pretty underclothing. Also increased self confidence.
( I was disappointed by one thing in your post…no comparison of women’s tops and bottoms) what were you not thinking??? J/K
Thanks for posting about this touchy subject. Now I need to go read part one.
Stephanie Edwards(Quote) (Reply)
I agree, when taking style, comfort and overall looks, there is an even greater argument to update the ladies’ garments than the men’s. It would be an excellent addition to this already compelling assortment of solutions.
Paul Jensen(Quote) (Reply)
Thank you for your comments Stephanie. I put up some new pictures of some women tops. I didn’t even think about doing a comparison!
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Beautifully articulated.
O(Quote) (Reply)
Thank you!
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Great conclusion. Garment problems are among the things that “create a hedge about the law.”
James(Quote) (Reply)
Excellent point James.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
There is definitely no reason at all why members who are trusted to wear the garment and promise to wear it couldn’t be trusted to buy underwear that suites them (within certain guidelines, I doubt a thong would be deemed acceptable)and then purchase an iron-on kit from the distribution center to add to them. The garments are nothing more than a reminder of the promises made and the sacred teachings learned in the temple; like a cross to a catholic/protestant or a yarmulke for the Jews. The design has nothing to do with faith or level of testimony, so why not allow the members to use their judgement and apply the markings as they deem appropriate.
Paul Jensen(Quote) (Reply)
yes very well said Paul.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Paul Jensen,
I am all about fashion and comfort. I may not wear garments anymore, but I have continued to remain faithful to my spouse. I really don’t like how others judge whether you have been to the temple or not. Garment shouldn’t define you, but remind you of the promises you made. A lady at church a little over a year ago asked me WHY I don’t wear them anymore?seriously….
Stephanie Edwards(Quote) (Reply)
Stephanie great points. And wow to the old lady, I can’t believe she would ask that! This is a private decision that needs to remain private.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Paul Barker,
Lucky for me I was taking a child to the bathroom and the child said “I need to go really bad”. I walked away. Since then I can feel her examining me when I see her at church and out and about shopping. I have purposely have worn shorter cap sleeves and tighter shirts. She treats me like I have some contagious disease. Who’s business is this anyway? It is between me and my Lord. My underwear don’t define who I am my morals and integrity do.
Stephanie Edwards(Quote) (Reply)
Stephanie Edwards,
AMEN!!!
Paul Jensen(Quote) (Reply)
I agree that there are a lot of things that could be done to make garments more comfortable and/or fit better. I’ve seen some of your posts dealing with the concept of modesty, and I agree with a lot of your points. I’m not ready to throw out the idea that there is a component of modesty associated with garments, because the wording of the endowment ceremony suggests, in my opinion, that there is an element of modesty associated with the wearing of garments.
I may be misunderstanding the scriptural justification used to support your argument, but I’m not sure I’m on board with you. it may just be a matter of the semantics of what you mean when you talk about “regulating behavior”. You speak a Latin-based language, so you know the word regulate comes from the Latin word that means “rule”. The fact that there are rules in life doesn’t mean that we are unable to choose to obey or disobey those rules. In fact, I would say that when a law or rule is created, you are actually presented with a choice to obey or disobey the rule (recognizing of course that there may be varying degrees of obedience and disobedience).
If the city I live in posts a speed limit of 30 mph on a given street, my ability to drive faster than the speed limit is not taken away. No one comes and puts a device in my car that will prevent me from driving over 30 mph. If I choose to drive faster than 30 mph, though, I may get a ticket or suffer some other undesirable consequence.
If my employer requires me to wear certain safety/protective clothing or other gear at work, no one can force me to wear the protective gear. If I choose not to wear the protective gear, I might get injured, or my employer may fire me, but I still have the choice of whether or not to wear the equipment according to the rules established by my employer. (This is the idea of choosing “liberty and eternal life” or choosing “captivity and death”, described in 2 Nephi 2:27, which you quoted).
That’s how life is. There are rules and consequences when we break those rules. The fact that a consequence of a choice may be undesirable doesn’t mean that I am forced to make a choice–it means that, if I want to achieve a certain outcome, my range of choices is limited. If I want a temple recommend, I have to choose behaviors that make me worthy to have one. That doesn’t mean I no longer have the option of not paying tithing or breaking the law of chastity–it means that IF I want a temple recommend, I can’t do those things, or I need to repent if I have done those things.
In the Scriptures you quote here, you’ve left out the parts that talk about the consequences of our the choices we make. In quoting 2 Nephi 2:27, you left out the part that says we are free to choose liberty and eternal life or captivity and death–the idea that our choices have consequences, and we can make choices that we hope will lead us to the outcome we desire. In quoting Moses 6:56, you end the quote before the part that says the Lord has given a law and commandment, and that if people don’t repent when they choose not to obey the commandments, there will be consequences that are less than desirable (v. 57). In Quoting Helamam 14:30, you left out the first part of the verse, which talks about the negative consequences of choosing not to obey God’s commandments.
Please don’t think I’m saying you left those parts out because you have some hidden agenda or anything like that. I’m just saying that, in my opinion, a discussion of free agency is not complete without mentioning that we are free to make any choice, but we usually don’t get to choose the consequences of our choices except in the sense that we make certain choices because we have been told or have learned from experience that those choices will lead to an outcome we desire.
In my opinion, commandments are regulations. They are rules or laws, and God wants us to use our agency to obey them because he wants what is best for us.
I guess what I’m saying is that by choosing to receive my endowment, I chose to wear garments. I’m not saying that the garments produced by the church are ideal. I’m all for people loading the suggestion box if they want to. But if the church doesn’t make any changes to the garments, I would hope that people would be cool with that. I see no problem with recommending changes and improvements to the garments, particularly where fit and comfort are the issue. On the other hand, I think an equally good, if not better option would be to consider the clothes you wear. If you wear shirts that are tight enough that you can see the markings on your garments through them, it makes me wonder if cycling jerseys are your clothing of choice
. Seriously though, lots of people have to wear specific clothing/uniforms that are required by their employers, and they do it so they can keep their jobs. They decide it is more important to be able to make a living than to be able to wear whatever clothes they want. Is it that much to ask of us to make VERY minor changes in our wardrobe in order to keep the covenants we make? I don’t think so, but I know not everyone will agree with me, and I’m ok with that too. Hopefully no one will feel that i’m making this comment in judgment of anyone else for the personal decisions they make. It’s just a point of view that makes sense to me, and I recognize that it may not make sense to others.
On another note, many of the issues you mention are associated with cotton garments, but are not an issue with other fabrics that are available, at least in my experience. I used to wear cotton garments and they really were uncomfortable. Now I prefer the Corban fabric (my roommates at BYU called them “silkies”). A lot of the problems you mention are not issues with this fabric. They don’t ride up, they don’t bunch up in the “wedding tackle” region. They basically feel like a loose-fitting Under Armour shirt, which I think is super comfy. As far as being able to see the markings through shirts, I guess I don’t wear clothes that are tight enough for this to be an issue because I don’t want to draw attention to my gut
. The only time I have an issue with markings, hem lines, etc. showing would be with dress shirts (of any color). I just pull a regular Hanes undershirt over my garment top. This keeps the markings and the “eternal smile” from showing. The Corban fabric is so thin and light that this doesn’t bother me. I do this through the summer heat of Texas at a job where I wear dress shirts 4-5 days a week, and the three layers of clothing have never been an issue. In fact I think it’s much more comfy than just the cotton garment tops I used to wear. Plus the Corban fabric is practically indestructible–I think they last much longer than the cotton garments or good ol’ tightie whities.
Wow, that was more of a novel than a comment, but I liked your post–made me think a lot about how I feel about garments. I’d be ok with improvements, but I don’t really have any complaints about the options that are currently available.
Mike Gilchrist(Quote) (Reply)
Mike thanks for your comment I appreciate the feed back!
I left out that part of the scripture because it seemed a little dramatic when talking about underwear.
The speed limit sign example you bring up is a good point. The rule is there but you are still able to make the choice. You can still speed or go as slow as you want. There is nothing that forces you to slow down. You will however have to face the consequences of a ticket or if going slow angry honking people behind you. That choice is still yours to make. This is the way it should be. We should dress respectfully, but that again needs to be our choice. The choice shouldn’t be: “Can I wear this with garments or not” rather “Is this an outfit that is respectful”. I can’t think of any other commandment or instruction that regulates us. My wife could never wear that dress that Ann Romney is wearing just because she is not tall enough and her garments would hang out.
I don’t think the Lord really wants us being uncomfortable as any sort of sacrifice for him. I don’t think you were saying that, but I wanted to put that out there. Reminds me of the albino guy on the Davinci Code (at an extreme level). At a very extreme level.
The silkies always seemed to run long on me, so they would hang out of my shorts being the short person I am. Short but very good looking.
I think some people are fine with the Garment and that is just fine, others however are not. Some of the members in Africa for example, that are nowhere close to our culture, the Garment would need to change dramatically.
I was at the Killers concert on Friday and it was very easy to spot all the Mormons men that went to the temple. The big ol collar was sticking out of their t-shirt. I did this post because of this issue: We know for the most part, who is wearing the garment and who is not. This is not good.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
And thanks again for your comment Mike. I appreciate it a lot.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Superb post. We all should print this out and stick it in the suggestion box.
We should all take a moment and reflect on HOW WEIRD IT IS THAT MORMONS CHECK OUT EACH OTHER’S UNDERWEAR. 
This would restore the emphasis where it should be on ritual clothing and a personal covenant with God.
Jared(Quote) (Reply)
Thanks Jared! It is a very strange practice and it is a big indicator that things need to change.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Mike Gilchrist,
I’m going to have to agree with Mike with regards to the agency and garments. I don’t feel like garments are necessarily removing our agency with respect to modesty. You have the choice to wear them or not. If you want to wear less “modest” clothing, then you can simply not wear the garments. Many don’t chose that route out of fear of being ostracized and criticized by other members, but I feel that is a bigger problem than the “immodest” clothing.
I know I’m guilty of noticing when people aren’t wearing their garments. It’s none of my business and I shouldn’t care. And the standards for modesty are constantly changing and are so subjective that it’s not fair to hold everyone to that standard. But the standard of being a judgmental jerk has not changed. We know how the Lord feels about that. I guess what I’m saying is that I need to be MUCH better about not judging girls who are endowed that decide to wear a tank top.
Life would be much simpler if we did just go back to ankle to wrist garments all the time, even when swimming and playing sports. Then we wouldn’t have to think about what’s modest and what isn’t. I’m not suggesting that, I’m just saying it takes much less thought. Today’s standards and expectations require much more thought and reflection and require us to mature much more with our spiritual understanding. Those who don’t take the time to think or ponder about it end up judging everyone falsely that doesn’t live up to their standards, and that is sad.
Cody Calderwood(Quote) (Reply)
I’ll have to agree to disagree… “We should dress respectfully, but that again needs to be our choice. The choice shouldn’t be: “Can I wear this with garments or not” rather “Is this an outfit that is respectful”. I can’t think of any other commandment or instruction that regulates us.” If you look at that picture of Ann Romney, and then ask your wife if she could show that much leg and wear garments, she would say no and then same thing would go with my shorty.
We should have to think about what we wear. It should be our choice. I remember that movie Far & Away when some gentleman stopped to check out some hot ankles Nicole Kidman’s character was showing… Is covering up more really the solution?
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Paul, I’ve seen those old garment newspaper ads before but something just struck me: here is a woman publicly modeling a “union suit.” They’re not “garments” yet because the marks used to be cut into the fabric in the temple, but you sure wouldn’t see this today! In other words, EVERYONE, LDS or not knew what garments looked like because they were just regular “union suits.” Which it interesting because, at one time, those long garments had a collar, which, according to the seamstress who worked with JS on the design, represented the priesthood.
By the way, I could have worn the dress Ann Romney’s wearing with the special order garments Beehive clothing made for me in 1998 when I complained that the petite bloomers I needed because of my short rise were too short in the leg. they ordered them 2 whole inches longer but they came 2 inches shorter instead. I was so disgusted with the poor customer service that represented that I wore them anyway and was able to wear mid-tigh shorts with them.
Martie(Quote) (Reply)
Martie – well said and thanks again for your help with this post. It is time to get out of the underwear biz!!
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
One other issue is the cup size in the women’s top. No matter what size top I get, they are notoriously too big and baggy in the breast size, maybe on purpose? Too fitted would be immodest? But the result is bunching up under the bra and super uncomfortable and unattractive. Don’t wear mine much, but that was always an issue and doesn’t seem to matter how well endowed a woman is.
Danielle(Quote) (Reply)
I didn’t mention the breast feeding or wearing a pad either – both are real issues too.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
They do have a new spandex top that is more fitted. But in the summer time it is really heavy.
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
I was somewhat hesitant to read this post, but after reading it and several of the comments I thought I’d add my two cents. In a nutshell, I kind of think this is a non-issue for me. It’s just not something I’m losing any sleep over. Your point about members noticing the ‘smile’ and whatnot has always seemed benign to me. Although, I see what you’re saying about it being nobody’s business whether or not you’re wearing them. However, I feel that it takes a lot of moxie to choose not to wear them and then flaunt that choice by the clothes you wear and then turn around and demand not to be judged by that choice. Also, I know many women of all shapes and sizes with different financial constraints who manage to clothe themselves respectfully without the issues you mentioned. Some of these things may truly be important to some of the woman in the church and its no skin off my nose if they’re changed, but I won’t be campaigning anytime soon. There’s just too many other things on my plate.
Arlene(Quote) (Reply)
For some they are able to deal with the garments with no issues of comfort or showing the garment. For some it is a big deal. Some don’t mind it and some do. This proves my point that every body is different!
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Every pair of men’s bottoms I buy has the seam to the left of the fly rip open. I hate having to always have holes in my underwear. Because I grew up poor this is a real issue for me. I just threw away 7 pairs all with a hole in the same place. This never happens with store bought boxer briefs which I have resorted to wearing instead. Jockey makes a nice item. Just as modest but way more comfortable and better made.
Stan(Quote) (Reply)
The garment quality is lacking for sure. Something needs to be done!
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
Please make a female top and bottom comparison – I am about to get endowed and I am almost breaking out in hives just thinking about the horror or garments
Norma Kamai(Quote) (Reply)
Norma – I hope it goes well. I’m unclear of what you are requesting, can you clarify?
Paul Barker(Quote) (Reply)
I enjoy wearing modest clothing–sleeves and longer dresses/capris. However since I am short, I have a huge problem with the garments showing when I wear mid knee length dresses and raise my arms. In the winter I can wear nylons or tights but in the summer it is too hot. I cant cross my legs in dresses unless I have mid calf dresses/shirts. Luckily, most of my bra straps hold my garments up on my shoulders, but not always, and then I spend the day pulling them up. I usually have the little sleeve tucked up in my bra strap to keep it from slipping down so if it was gone completely it wouldnt be any different. I love wearing garments because they feel good on my skin, but my clothing feels sloppy. I would love to pick out my own underclothing and put on my own marks!
Janet Williams(Quote) (Reply)